Father and son winemakers of their family estate in Alsace: “We like the idea that wine finds a voice of its own, independent of the winemaker”.
For the 37th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series, we return to the Route des Grands Crus d’Alsace, to meet Mathieu Deiss who, together with his father, stands at #14 in the rankings. Since its foundation in 1947, in Bergheim near Ribeauvillé, Domaine Marcel Deiss has been cultivating high standards, respect for tradition, and the capacity to evolve. This is a family history where the exchange between father and son transcends simple sharing of knowledge.
Mathieu Deiss needs no invitation to pay tribute to his father, Jean-Michel, who continues to help him run the estate. Alongside his commitments at Domaine Marcel Deiss, Mathieu also devotes himself to a more personal project at Vignoble du Rêveur (The Dreamer’s Vineyard), together with his partner, Emmanuelle Milan (daughter of Henri Milan of Domaine Milan, ed.). And you truly have to be a dreamer to imagine that the coming together of heaven and earth has given birth to a divine nectar, historically dedicated to the gods, today aimed at humans instead. However, for this “manual worker who also likes to handle ideas”, abstraction has its limits, as nature is always quick to remind us.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Mathieu Deiss: More than any personal gratification, what really matters for me is the appreciation of the work that goes into every bottle, not least the work of my father and my partner. I see this as recognition for the estate rather than for me personally. I find it touching, and it inevitably makes me think of the 25 people who work alongside us.
Have you been training for long?
I grew up surrounded by tractors and wine presses, I have been immersed in it all since I was a baby, just like Obélix. Without being remotely aware of it, I have been trained by my circumstances, and I owe that to my father who gave me all the freedom I needed. I am a manual worker who also likes to handle ideas. When I started here in 2008, after completing a degree in physical chemistry, my father was beside me in the cellar to help with my first vinification. It has been a genuinely seamless transition. I never wanted to act out the father-son generational schism. Great wines are a complex affair, to do with conserving something and with breaking new ground. I like to combine the best of both worlds. There will always be people who find me either insufficiently “natural” or insufficiently conventional. I like the idea that wine finds a voice of its own, independent of the winemaker. There are aspects of vintages and of the character of every terroir that require us, the winemakers, to stand aside from the limelight. Especially in Alsace!
Who is your mentor?
My father has played a central part in my career. He has frequently proved to be right while ahead of his time. Stéphane de Renoncourt has also been a big inspiration. He has a real sensitivity for wines. Wine is not just about slavishly following traditional methods; it is also an adventure, and you have to change what isn’t working. You have to stay agile, which is not always easy in the world of wine. We might even go as far as to question the wine appellation system and ask whether it is sufficiently adaptable. I can understand that natural wine is outside the mainstream, and we have to accept that. However, some grape varieties and some methods have now passed their use-by date.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, you have to be able to play as a team and get people on board with your programme, but it’s also very solitary at times, because you have to take risks, stand on your own two feet, develop your own style, and make your own decisions. You can’t ask the team to take all that on. You can’t paint a picture with ten of you at the easel. The trickiest time is when it comes to bottling. That is when all the doubts set in.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
You can put your best efforts into a very simple terroir and that regularly produces great wines. You cannot have one without the other. The terroir is paramount, if for no other reason than it provides an essential continuity. When it comes to the winemakers, there are more disruptions, because of family transitions in particular. We want to give our terroir its own voice.
To what do you owe your success?
I was lucky to be in the right place at the right time, as Brassens put it. However, I think I owe my success to tenacity, and that goes for my father too.
Is your family proud of you?
I think so. We shouldn’t do what we do with the aim of impressing others. But when my partner, Emmanuelle Milan, and I had forged our own path with Vignoble du Rêveur, I’m pretty sure that finally convinced my father that I was capable of taking charge here.
What is your favourite colour?
I’m far too curious and fond of variety to pick out one colour. My wines reflect that. I mix white with orange, find something of interest in everything, and I operate more and more by instinct. I think that red wines have a great future in Alsace, where the changing climate will suit the expression of Pinot Noir. I very rarely open bottles of my own wine, and I always taste completely blind to avoid being influenced by labels.
Your favourite grape variety?
Many come through alright, depending on the year, while some have, quite wrongly, acquired a bad reputation in the past. What bothers me is this obsession with focusing on a grape variety. What really engages me is rummaging around amongst the old Alsatian grape varieties which have disappeared for the wrong reasons. As soon as we started to use fertilisers some grape varieties produced two times too much and we tore up the vines, just like we did with those that didn’t tolerate grafting. Societal and climate change has turned all that upside down.
Your favourite vintage?
The recent vintages have been hot vintages, but 2019, for example, doesn’t taste of heat and is a really lovely vintage. The vintages which have provided exceptional ripeness seem heavier, and so atypical for Alsace, but they have very fine ageing potential.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
My personality is quite fastidious and particular. I think that this demanding quality can be found in my wine. I am a great lover of photography, and Henri Cartier-Bresson in particular. He captured the moment but was always reflective, his work combines a sense of movement and construction, and that’s what I want to reproduce in my wines.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
I think our wines are wines that need to be shared. I never open a bottle on my own; it’s a shame for the bottle and a pointless exercise. Around a table, in company, remains the ideal, but for me, above all, these are moments for reflection. I want people to ask themselves questions and for that to generate discussion. I like wines to tell a story and for people to be stirred up.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
No, the question has never come up. That’s all to do with economic considerations and that’s not why we make wine. 40 years ago, when my father went out on a limb, no one could understand it. He was also taking an economic risk but never looked at it in those terms.
Who is your most feared competitor?
Myself. The winemaker’s number one priority is to try to avoid making too many silly mistakes. Sometimes you have to be wary of yourself and your fears, which are seldom good advisers.
And the competition that you dread the most?
Bottling the wine. That’s the stage which makes me most anxious.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
It’s pretty much all been done before. Our predecessors have already done so much. Where I have done things differently I have been inspired by what people did in the past: putting grapes at the bottom of the barrels, for example, or reintroducing maceration, which is a method I would like to bring back into fashion. It allows you to play with the structuring of the wines, to improve their ageing potential. It’s not necessarily that tangible, but it gives the wines a spine.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
Perhaps one day my children, but it has to be their choice. We have four-year-old twins who wake up to help us at harvest time, so that we finish more quickly! Life runs its course. I have come across many sad people who haven’t done what they wanted to do in life. I hope, above all, that won’t be the case for my children.
Managing Director and winemaker of Château La Conseillante in Pomerol: “A great wine can’t exist without a great terroir.”
The 36th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series takes us to Pomerol, where Marielle Cazaux, #15, has been at the helm of Château La Conseillante since 2015. Mixing the farmer’s wisdom of her upbringing with cutting-edge technical knowledge, Cazaux has brought a breath of fresh air to the prestigious Pomerol domaine. Under her reign, La Conseillante’s recent vintages have grown in quality and precision, becoming ever more refined while remaining faithful to their identity.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Marielle Cazaux: I wasn’t expecting to be in the rankings whatsoever! I was totally blown away. I heard the news when I was mid-harvest amongst the vines and all I could say was “Oh my God!”. However, I don’t see my work as something done solo, it’s very much a group endeavour with my team. If La Conseillante is where it is today, it’s thanks, in large part, to the team I have around me of people who are passionate about their work, who believe in my ideas and bring their own to the table.
Have you been training for a long time?
I have been in training since my very first internships as an agricultural engineering student, so since 2001. The first internship I carried out where I was really immersed in the world of wine was at Ridge Vineyards in Sonoma County. Afterwards, I went on to do an internship at Suduiraut in the Sauternes. When I started working in 2004, just after I graduated, I was taken on as Technical Director at Château Lezongars, in the Côtes de Bordeaux appellation. The property was 38 hectares, so actually quite big, but there were only four of us working there. I looked after the winery on my own, and the tractors too – if any of my workers were ill or on holiday, I had to look after the vines, treat any diseases, do the pruning, etc. It was a huge learning curve! I can still see myself in a tractor up at the top of a steep slope, between two rows of vines, saying to myself: “Come on, girl, you can do it!” It’s by training that you make your way up from the lowest divisions to the Premier League. With Château de Malleprat, I started playing in the professional divisions, and then Château Petit-Village (also in Pomerol, ed.) was my move into the Premier League. Now, with La Conseillante, I’m in the Champions’ League!
Who is your mentor?
My best mentor is my partner. It’s thanks to him that I ended up at La Conseillante as, when I was initially headhunted, I didn’t dare go to the interview as it was for Managing Director and not Technical Director. I’m a winemaker – I couldn’t see myself doing the sales and marketing part of the job. My husband, who’s a former rugby player, said to me, “In rugby, if you get up to the first division and it doesn’t work out, you can always go back down to the second division.”
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
In my view, a great wine can’t exist without a great terroir, so the terroir is more important. That said, you can’t make a great wine without a great team. In order for all the stars to be aligned, you need a great terroir, a good captain, who surrounds themselves with an excellent team, and supportive owners – for us, it’s the Nicolas family (owners of La Conseillante, ed.) – who believe in the team’s ambitions and give them the means to do things well.
To whom do you owe your success?
I think I owe my success to the wonderful childhood I had in the Landes. If, today, I’m blessed with a good nose and a taste for the finer things in life, it’s because I had a mother who was a fabulous cook and a father with an exceptional nose, who gave me a taste for wine. They both taught me to pay attention to everything I smelt and ate. You can’t be a great winemaker if you don’t pay attention to smells and to tastes, and if you don’t have a clear idea of what you like when you make wine. You need to have been lucky enough to have tasted lots of wines and to know what you like and what you don’t like.
Are your parents proud of you?
Yes, they are proud. However, I think my parents would be happy regardless of what I do, as long as I have a roof over my head and I’m content! They’re very down-to-earth, pragmatic people.
Who is your best sponsor?
Let me show you the label on my jacket. Can you see the little logo? I have a boss who adores clothes and who makes us all sorts of sweatshirts, polos, jackets, etc., all of which are lovely. My best sponsor is definitely my boss!
What is your favourite colour?
You can see my favourite colour right behind me – the blue of a cloudless sky, which gives you a feeling both of the vastness of the world and of deep contentment.
Your favourite grape variety?
It would be impossible for me to choose anything other than Merlot, even if I adore the majestic Syrahs of the Côte-Rôtie. A great Merlot produced on our Pomerol terroirs is just magic. It’s good young, then it’s good at 10 years old, at 15 years old, because it starts to take on truffle aromas. In the right environment, it is a magical grape variety, and its aromatic expressions are so wonderfully diverse.
Your favourite vintage?
Today, I’m going to choose a vintage that I didn’t make myself. I’ve only been at the estate for eight years and you have to wait at least 10 to 12 years for a Conseillante to be truly great. My favourite vintage is 2005. It’s a very emotive wine, with its many flavours, its complexity, its smoothness, its length, its finesse. It is, quite simply, a magnificent wine.
If your wine was a person, who would it look like?
I would say Miles Davis. In his music, there’s always the most wonderful smoothness and precision. His pieces are also utterly enchanting, exhilarating, and very long. I hope that the wines that we produce at La Conseillante today have that same balance, length, smoothness, and perfection, because it is perfection that we are constantly seeking.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wines?
If you only have one bottle – a 10- or 12-year-old Conseillante, for example – it’s best to taste it with just one other person so that you can both really get the most out of it. My husband and I have already tried tasting a bottle with six of us there. It is somewhat frustrating, as you can’t make out all the different aromas in all their depth with just one glass. Many people ask me for food pairings with La Conseillante and I would say that you need something simple, so that the dish doesn’t hide the wine’s aromas. You can start the bottle before the meal as an apéritif, with a little bit of pata negra ham, and then take the bottle with you to the table to accompany a very simple dish.
With whom?
With someone you love, whether it’s your partner, your parents, or your best friend. The best bottles are always those that are shared with the people that you love.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wines?
No… in fact, yes, I have a magic potion, just like Asterix, that I drink every morning during the harvest to stay on top form. I’ll give you the recipe – it’s fantastic! You need to put some water, fresh grated ginger, grated turmeric, the juice of half a lemon and a bit of pepper into a bottle and keep it in the fridge to infuse overnight; in the morning, you filter it. For wine, however, there’s no need to enhance it chemically. Quite the opposite, in fact, the movement over the last few years has been towards “less is more”, so no chemical inputs, less use of wood. We use indigenous lactic bacteria at La Conseillante: I take my bacteria from a particular parcel and I use them to make a fermentation starter for the following year. We don’t use any sulphur in our winemaking process, or only the barest minimum.
Who is your most feared opponent?
I have two opponents. Well, journalists aren’t really opponents but, for me, they cause a lot of anxiety with the scores that they publish for each vintage. It is a real source of stress for me, rather like for a designer who’s presenting his new collection on the runway. Something that is even more unpredictable and over a much longer period of time is the weather, which is my number one worry. From 1st April to 15th October, I have to live with the weather and its constraints. It’s not an opponent as such, as I can’t fight against it, but it is a form of adversity.
What are you proudest of?
First of all, I’m proud of having built the team that I have now at La Conseillante. Between the moment I arrived and today, it has changed considerably: some members have retired; others have changed paths. Today, however, I have managed to bring together an incredibly close-knit group of people that I like to call my “dream team”. Everyone is willing to work and not a single person complains. When we get a good rating for a wine, everyone rejoices. We eat meals together; we are a real team with a solid core, and I am very proud of that. It’s also thanks to the Nicolas family that I have been able to build this team up. Working for them is another great source of pride.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the winery?
If I give it to you, I’ll be betraying my deepest secrets… No, I’m just joking. I’ll give you something that I started using this year, which is really at the forefront of innovation, something quite mind-blowing, which comes from the world of neuroscience. We use electrodes, planted into the vine, to measure electric flows. We have a form of artificial intelligence that transforms the data into information that tells us if the plant is being attacked by mildew or if it is in hydric stress; it can even tell us if the grapes are mature. We tested the tool to see if, when the plant was telling us that it was in hydric stress, the results correlated with those of our traditional tools. We were astonished to find that it was completely accurate. It can also measure the berry sugar accumulation just by using these electric flows. Once again, the results recorded were completely accurate compared to the other tests that we carried out. All this means that the plant is using its own form of communication. Here at La Conseillante, we always thought that was the case! We speak to our vines, saying “good morning” to them at the start of the day and “goodbye” at night. In any case, this is the most innovative tactic that I have been able to test this year. In the winery, on the other hand, I think you have to stay very basic and return to traditional methods.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
I’m thinking of people who head up less prestigious domaines, who would so deserve this honour. I have lots of friends who make exceptional wines in the Côtes de Bordeaux, Côtes de Blaye, and Médoc appellations, who don’t get any media attention. So, go out there, go and do a ranking of France’s top 50 winemakers excluding Grands Crus and big domaines! Thinking back, when I was heading up lesser-known châteaux, like Lezongars and Malleprat, we made superb wines. I put in just as much energy and passion to my work then as I do now at La Conseillante. I’m thinking of all those winemakers who do a remarkable job, including my friends the Lavauds at Domaine Les Carmels or the Julliots at Domaines SKJ in Listrac.
The 35th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series finds us once more in Champagne to meet Vincent Chaperon, #16 of France’s 50 best winemakers and cellar master of the emblematic champagne house: “I have quite an extreme nature”.
With his slender and athletic physique, preppy haircut, sharp gaze framed by thick-rimmed eyeglasses, and perfect diction, Vincent Chaperon is the kind of person one could easily find annoying, as he seems to have been unfairly graced with every enviable quality. But digging deeper, one might also sense a darker part, an urgency, and an eagerness to do well that is at odds with the hazardous conditions of a career that is at the mercy of its environment. Yet it is this tension, this fear of failure, that has crowned the young cellar master with success after success, where others might have settled for safety. “My time at Dom Pérignon has been something of a Bildungsroman: I was plucked straight out of school by my predecessor, Philippe Coulon (who passed in June 2023, ed.), and then raised in the maison” he recalls. “Despite my Bordeaux upbringing, to which I remain very attached, my adult life took shape in Champagne.”
Following a brief trip abroad, he was named oenologist in 2000, forming a virtually symbiotic duo with his predecessor Richard Geoffroy. “I arrived here with many expectations and ambitions, I wanted to prove something, and I had the chance to be inspired by people whom I loved very much, such as Richard, who helped me make the right decisions at times when I was growing impatient.”
This restraint bore its fruits: in 2017, the maison announced that he would be appointed cellar master the following year. “That day, I walked down the same hallways I always did, but everything had a different dimension, I looked back at the path that brought me here. It was an incredibly emotional moment.”
For the past five years, Vincent Chaperon has followed his ambition to fully embrace his role, without ever sacrificing its creative and sensitive dimensions on the altar of the operational. Eternally dissatisfied, he nevertheless describes himself as “profoundly happy”.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Vincent Chaperon: “I’m overwhelmingly happy and grateful to be where I am today. There is something exciting about this acknowledgement, that I really enjoy, because I am a fierce competitor. My friends call me “champion” because I’m always up for a challenge!
Have you been training for long?
Yes, for a very long time, at times excessively. I’ve always been conscientious and engaged. It’s a gauge for me: in moments of doubt, when my motivation is low, when I question myself. I have a real thirst for life, for this career, for people.
Who is your mentor?
Three people have guided my career. Firstly, my paternal grandfather, who was an admiral in the marine, on the Libourne side of my family. He passed on to me his passion for wine, indirectly and subtly. Later, Philippe Coulon and Richard Geoffroy, at Dom Pérignon. I was also lucky to meet Jeff Koons, who, in just a few hours, made me realise things about my career that resonated with me, particularly its eminently artistic dimension. More recently, I crossed paths with the chef Massimiliano Alajmo: we understood each other right from the start. These are people who open doors.
Is wine a team sport?
Totally. With a maison the size of Dom Pérignon, you need to know how to share, which is both a blessing and a curse. Having a common vision implies having a close-knit team for the long run, because you need to understand each other beyond words, through emotions, through memories.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
Both. I consider a “fine wine” to be first and foremost the story of an encounter between Nature and Man – which I don’t see as being in opposition, as long as humans work in harmony with their surroundings and strive to enhance Nature’s fruits. One must choose a place and attempt to give a part of oneself in return.
To what do you owe your success?
To this thirst I mentioned earlier. I have quite an extreme nature, unpredictable, I like to see things through and to do so in a radical fashion. I lost my brother early in life, and my thirst for life is unquenchable. Various encounters I made were also decisive, and one must put their faith in providence. I truly believe things happen for a reason. The people you meet have an impact on your path in life.
Is your family proud of you?
They are proud of who I am. I have often tried to compartmentalise, to find the right balance, but I’m realising that if I want to grow as a person, whether on a personal or a professional level, I need to be both mind and body. This is something that gives me a lot of thought. We are living in a very rational world, which thinks intelligently, through concepts, but we sometimes forget we are also bodies. One must have a holistic approach to better understand one’s heritage.
Your favourite colour?
Navy blue. Beyond being my favourite colour to wear, it says something about me: both my grandfathers were sailors, one admiral and the other a naval commissioner, and I think I am a sailor myself. In a way, this is my heritage.
Your favourite wine variety?
Pinot Noir, which I discovered through Dom Pérignon. It fascinates me. I love its tension, its versatility, its elusiveness, its fragility, it says a lot about us. And I say this as a Merlot man, which is not a contradiction!
Your favourite vintage?
2022 – I’m very attached to it, and had a very strong emotional connection with this vintage. Since 2018, I have always gone further, to affirm myself, to chart my own course, and this is what is conveyed in this vintage.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It would be the person who is enjoying it. Wine is the mirror of people, and what I am seeking is for people to have a connection with our wines.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
No. When I arrived, at 23 years old, it was like arriving at the town hall and seeing the motto “Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité” (“Liberty, Equality, Fraternity”, the French motto, ed.). At Dom Pérignon, simple and natural winemaking was the house philosophy. It was quite visionary. There has always been a willingness to be transparent, to not overuse oak. There had been some in the 1960s, but when we started to work with stainless steel, everything changed. We have strived to build balance and complexity through the fruit, the blend, and time – these are the three essential components.
Who is your strongest competition?
Me. This taming of the self, this quest for knowledge, what our calling is, and wondering where we bring the most to the world.
Which competition do you dread the most?
Marathons. I have run three to this day, and notice that, although I can go the distance, I am still an impulsive person. I need to learn to endure waiting over time. My objective for next year is the New York marathon, and I am going to train to experience it fully.
What is your greatest trophy?
My family, and my role as cellar master for Dom Pérignon, which is a reward rather than a trophy, because it is not something I display.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
I have made many changes thanks to my research, such as making creative decisions early in the process. This means having very strong cultural and emotional biases for what is going to go into each vintage. I want to blend technique and emotions to give things direction from the start. This requires making the body and intuition priorities, through observation, tasting, etc.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
We are not a family-run maison, and yet, we think of things over the long term, with long-lasting mentorships, in ways that are similar to family bonds. There may not be a set candidate today, but there are many people that I am watching over and accompanying along their career path. I truly believe in working in pairs, in complementary duos. Ideally, my successor would be a disciple in the Eastern sense of the word, someone who is here for the long run, who can prove themselves. At Dom Pérignon, one must approach this holistically: right brain, left brain, concrete and conceptual, with true emotional intelligence. In the end, I would want it to be a good person.
Co-owner and winemaker of his family estate in Arbois: “I got ahead by turning to the past”
The 34th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series finds us in the heart of the Jura, where Stéphane Tissot, #17, runs his family’s 50-hectare biodynamic estate. The 53-year-old now embodies one of the region’s most emblematic vineyards, inspiring and training a whole generation of future winemakers.
Over the years, a number of key encounters have led Stéphane Tissot to adopt a radically different approach to that of his father (Hervé, ed.), “who did a good job, but in a very classical style”. Having grown up amongst the family vines, 1990 was his first vintage. As with many young winemakers, he first made his mark in the estate’s cellars, where he put a stop to the practice of stirring the lees in the Chardonnays, before reducing chemical intervention on the vines as much as possible. While working in an Australian vineyard during the off-season, he found himself opening the same packet of yeast as the ones being used in France. “I realised there was a problem, and that’s what encouraged me to move towards a healthier way of growing grapes and making wine.” His shift towards organic methods allowed him to unlearn everything that his years of study had tried to instil in him: “At the time, we were going completely against the grain of what was being done in the Jura,” he acknowledges. “In our region, you can make any kind of wine: light reds, concentrated reds, dry whites, oxidative whites, crémants, the list goes on!” Despite having now made more than forty different wines and almost ten ullaged Savagnins (where the barrels are topped up with wine to prevent the oxidation process, ed.), he doesn’t seem to have lost an ounce of his enthusiasm, with any excesses managed by his wife and teammate of 30 years, Bénédicte. “Thankfully, we enjoy what we do!” he says, before heading off for the unmissable 9 o’clock coffee break with the rest of the team.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Stéphane Tissot: My wife is against the idea of star status, we’re very much country people first and foremost. We’re often featured in the media, which we’re certainly not going to complain about. I’m very happy to receive this honour, especially as we made the choice not to have a vineyard manager or an oenologist, and to be the only ones making decisions. It is a wonderful recognition of our work.
Have you been training for long?
Since I was a child. When I got back from school, my father would be waiting for me, as I was the only one who was able to get inside the smallest barrels to clean them. My old primary school teacher once told me that, as soon as it was harvest time, my marks would suddenly take a nosedive, as my thoughts were elsewhere. And, during geography lessons, I would mix up the Rhône Valley with the Côtes-du-Rhône.
Who is your mentor?
Many people have helped us along the way, giving us ideas. The first person who helped me was Jean-Claude Ramonet, who studied with me in Beaune. We drank a lot of Chassagne-Montrachet 1983 together, and it was the first time I understood the influence of the terroir on a Chardonnay. When it comes to crémants, the estate that really made me rethink my ideas was that of Guillaume Selosse, after a tasting in the cellar there. Last but not least, here in the Jura, I can’t go without mentioning Pierre Overnoy.
Is wine a team sport?
There are two possibilities: either you run your little 3-hectare vineyard on your own, or you work as a team. There are more than thirty people who work with us, most of whom are here all year round – many even decide to settle here. They call themselves “La Tissoterie” (a play on the Tissots’ surname, ed.). The important thing for me is that people are happy to come to work.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
First, you need to know how to make wine, and how to grow grapes organically. But that is not enough – to make great wines or wines that have personality, that is where the terroir comes into play. If you have a great terroir but a bad winemaker, you won’t get anywhere.
To whom do you owe your success?
To my parents and to my wife. I am the youngest of three children, and I was the only one who was interested in making wine. My parents instilled in me the importance of working hard.
Is your family proud of you?
I think so, but that’s something that nobody ever talks about where we come from.
Who is your best sponsor?
Our agents and importers in Paris, New York, and Brussels. They are the ones who put our wines in the spotlight.
What is your favourite colour?
I think of myself more as a maker of whites, but I spend more time making reds! Just like a politician ends up spending more time with the people who don’t vote for him than with the people who do.
Your favourite grape variety?
Savagnin, the Jura’s iconic grape variety, or Poulsard – but specifically for natural wines.
Your favourite wine?
La Tour de Curon, as it’s a parcel which is a good reflection of our history. We took it over in the early 2000s. Nobody wanted it, and we replanted the whole thing in the old-fashioned way, using massal selection and with horse-drawn ploughs. For Bénédicte and me, it is almost like a fourth child.
Your favourite vintage?
1999, which was a turning-point for us, both in terms of quality and winemaking technique.
If your wine was a person, who would it look like?
As for any wine, it should look like the person who made it.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wines?
Always slightly aired, as I work a lot on reduction. It is vital to take one’s time when drinking them and to allow them to age.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wines?
I did do it to my wines at the beginning of my career, then I was the first to stop chaptalisation, and I haven’t looked back since then.
Who is your most feared opponent?
The French system, which keeps us from creating wines due to the huge amount of administrative pressure it places on us. We can’t find workers to pick our grapes, we have constant tax audits, we pay heavy social security contributions, we have to deal with anti-fraud regulation, et cetera. It is a heavy burden to bear.
And the competition that you dread the most?
In damper years, disease control is the most stressful thing. I spend my winter months in the cellar, my summer months amongst the vines – that’s the rhythm that I like, but we’re constantly playing with fire.
What is your greatest trophy?
My children.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
I have a restaurant owner friend, who carried out research into the right side of the brain – the creative side. I think my tactic has always been to follow my instinct.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
I’d rather not say, as I don’t want to put any pressure on them.
Sixth-generation winemaker of his family estate in Vosne-Romanée: “We are always competing against ourselves”.
For the 33rd interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series we remain in Burgundy to meet Charles Lachaux, #18. Winner of the Golden Vines World’s Best Rising Star Award 2021, he is one of the most exciting winemakers in Vosne-Romanée, rewriting the rulebook for a world still firmly rooted in tradition.
With some thirty-odd years under his belt, and 15 hectares of vines, comprised of 15 Côte-de-Nuits appellations, at his disposal, Charles Lachaux represents the sixth generation of the family to take his place at the helm of the estate; an estate which he radically transformed within a few short years. One of his most recent innovations has seen wooden barrels entirely replaced by ceramic sandstone vats to give the brightness of his Pinot Noirs its purest possible expression. Here is no ordinary winemaker.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Charles Lachaux: I have been in the spotlight ever since winning the Golden Vines award and this is a lovely accolade. It’s always nice to get some recognition, but it represents a snapshot in time, and you then have to maintain the same level. We can all call to mind iconic winemakers, but when you have the opportunity to achieve that status there is no margin for error. In any case, I’m not an icon yet. We will have to revisit that question in 30 years’ time!
What is your greatest source of pride?
To have taken so many risks in such a conservative region and profession in order to achieve my goals.
Have you been training for long?
You train without even being aware of it. I was always involved in every aspect of viticulture and vinification, on Wednesdays, when we didn’t have school, and at weekends. I spent all my time on the estate.
Who is your mentor?
My parents. I have worked all over the place, but I learnt my trade here on the estate and my parents are the ones who gave me the grounding to get to where I wanted. From 2012 I began to make changes, starting with “la vendange entière” (whole-cluster fermentation, in which the harvested grapes are fermented in full bunches, still attached to their stems, ed.). There have also been some notable encounters which have broadened my horizons.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, but we should acknowledge that it takes a bit of both. We could not do everything without a strong team, but there are times when you are on your own as the winemaker, as the decision-maker. It’s always a combination of the two; I have sole responsibility for the decisions I take to the best of my knowledge and belief. The decisions are ultimately down to me, even though I share a good deal with my mother.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
It is easier to make a good wine with a good terroir and good vines, because the soil and genetic quality of the vines are paramount. The winemaker can only enhance them.
To what do you owe your success?
It’s due to circumstances. I made some very bold choices at a time when the world of wine’s attention was focused on Burgundy and a radical approach was all the vogue, so that’s what I went for. A number of others did the same thing, but not at the right time. My innovations have become fashionable: vine-trellising systems are changing, and people are buying ceramic tanks. The fact that these things work, and are not mere speculation, makes other winemakers want to try them out. I have been inspired by what I have observed elsewhere: leaving the vines untrimmed like Bize-Leroy, “la vendange entière”, the older vintages of Romanée-Conti and Dujac, Nicolas Faure’s échalas (a vine-trellising system used in the northern Rhône, whereby the vines are attached to individual stakes, ed.), and so on. Lastly, my success is also thanks to my family.
Is your family proud of you?
I think so, I certainly hope they are. I could never have done it all without them.
What is your favourite colour?
Red, because it’s my favourite wine.
Your favourite grape variety?
Pinot Noir. It’s a chameleon, it can assume different hues, different aspects, it’s never boring.
Your favourite vintage?
The next one. Every year we start from scratch, we see the changes in the vines and grapes, and we fine-tune things more and more.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
If I’ve done a good job then my wine looks like where it comes from and the people who contribute to it.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
In a simple way, just wanting to have a good time. Unfortunately we have lost sight of this in Burgundy, where wine now tends to be sanctified. That’s understandable, given the prices, but all the ceremony can spoil the enjoyment.
Who is your strongest competition?
Nature, which is also our greatest ally, as well as the constantly evolving conditions of production, with all the micro-organisms, etc. Nature allows us to make progress, but it can also ruin us.
And the competition that you dread the most?
We are always under stress, but a competition implies a capacity to fight. Frost and hail are not competitions because we can’t do anything about them. We shouldn’t be afraid of competition: we are always competing against ourselves.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
Not for any price because it’s not for sale. Besides, it doesn’t belong to me, I am merely the sixth generation and it’s on loan from my children.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
Someone with the desire to keep changing and progressing and who will not be seduced by fame.
Owner and founder of Domaine Philippe Pacalet: “We haven’t built all this just to buy a yacht!”.
The 32nd interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series takes us on our sixth trip to Burgundy to meet Philippe Pacalet, #19, at his winery in the heart of Beaune, a jewel in the viticultural crown of the Côte-d’Or. Producing wines from around 20 hectares of Chardonnay, Aligoté, and Pinot Noir, he is a winemaker at the height of his popularity who is finally reaping the rewards of his remarkable staying power.
Understated, playful, hyperactive, and impressively knowledgeable, there is no shortage of epithets when it comes to describing Philippe Pacalet, an iconic figure in the Burgundy natural wine scene and nephew of the legendary Marcel Lapierre. True to his convictions, he faced a real obstacle course upon entering the world of wine, having to endure widespread criticism before becoming, at long last, the height of fashion.
“In the 1980s we experienced a good deal of hostility, even malice. People were simply not ready for it. I am fond of saying that we were a bit too early getting to the station. I believe that the natural wine train has eventually arrived and this time we have managed to get on board.”
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Philippe Pacalet: I am honoured that people are taking an interest in me, and that my longevity and my determination to respect and improve on the work of our predecessors are being acknowledged. I just get on with it and, in any case, I don’t know how to do anything else. I keep my feet on the ground, and I think I’m on the right track. Over the course of 30 years, some things about me have changed. Back in the day, it was a constant battle, and I couldn’t let things go. Later, I began to mature, and now it’s gratifying to be recognised by my peers.
What is your greatest source of pride?
Being able to make a good wine with lovely aromas together with my team, and the fact that this allows me to live a happy life. I have been fortunate to find something that I am good at. It was always there inside me, but someone has to make it resonate for you. In this respect, encounters with others play a major part.
Have you been training for long?
I began to train seriously when I was 21, the age of reason but also of stupidity! That said, I have been immersed in the world of wine since I was tiny.
Who is your mentor?
Marcel Lapierre, my uncle, who taught me the value of traditional “farmer’s wisdom” and love for people, Jules Chavet for the scientific side of things, Jacques Néauport for his artist’s soul, and Michel Archawski who taught me how to run a business.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, a winemaker needs support. It is important to build a team and develop its expertise, but there are still decisions that you have to make on your own. It’s a profession with a very solitary side.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
Both of them. I believe that you need sensitivity, hard work, and a bit of passion. Terroir and winemaker go together, they form a unity. They are like a couple; things are not always easy. Humans are vertical creatures, whereas the ground is horizontal. It’s a meeting of the two, and there isn’t always a right angle!
To what do you owe your success?
I owe it to always having believed in what I was doing, to having stood up for my ideals, and to having listened, at least sometimes, to my friends. Finally, I owe it to having always had the courage, in moments of uncertainty, to go back to keeping things simple.
Is your family proud of you?
Yes, they have been brave enough to point me in the right direction and they have put their faith in me.
What is your favourite colour?
It has to be red, because I have been drinking it for a long time. These days I also make rosé (at Château Malherbe, ed.) and I drink some white wine, but red is still my favourite.
Your favourite grape variety?
Pinot Noir, which can be virile, not in a macho sense of course, can have an artistic side, and can engender powerful emotions. It has an earthy quality and is packed with power, elegance, and aromas. It keeps your feet on the ground.
Your favourite vintage?
1998, which has become a great vintage late in the day.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It looks like the person who made it. Wine is a mirror which sometimes reflects mediocrity, sometimes genius.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
With people I love, sitting around a table, not necessarily with food.
Who is your strongest competition?
Doing things by rote, which is the Achilles heel of our profession.
And the competition that you dread the most?
There isn’t one. What I find most stressful is the bureaucratic red tape which infuriates me.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
It’s not for sale so it doesn’t have a price.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
My children. My son, who is 30, already works with me, and will take over the estate, probably with his sister. We haven’t built all this just to buy a yacht!
Winemaker of his legendary family estate in Champagne: “There is always a lot expected of the younger generation”.
For the 31st interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series we pay our sixth visit to Champagne to meet Guillaume Selosse, #20, who is now at the helm of one of the region’s most sought-after estates. A model of discretion, he makes uniquely thrilling wines whose ratings continue to soar.
Domaine Jacques Selosse, founded by Guillaume’s grandfather, is situated in Avize, a small village in the Côte de Blancs. Known long ago as Ozannel-la-belle, Avize has been renowned since the 18th century for its well-balanced Blancs de Blancs champagnes, classified Grand Cru. Jacques Selosse settled here shortly after the Second World War in 1947 and, despite not coming from a family of winemakers, soon acquired some vines. In 1949 Jacques and his wife founded the estate that still bears his name, and the couple made their own wine for the first time in 1964. Ten years later their son, Anselme, joined the estate and embarked on an extended exploration of the methods and practices of viticulture and vinification. His never-ending quest for perfection lasted throughout his career. From 1990 to 1996 he applied the principles of organic farming, then graduated to a biodynamic approach. But from 2002 he distanced himself from the established norms of biodynamic doctrine, taking the view that we should not impose on nature. Over the last few years Anselme’s son, Guillaume, representing the third generation, has taken up the reins with verve.
Paradoxically, it was in Bordeaux that this new star of the Champagne winemaking galaxy experienced his true epiphany, while studying viticulture and oenology in Saint-Émilion. This was a carefully considered sideways step, which enabled Guillaume to meet young prospective winemakers from all around the world. It gave him a very different take on things than he could have acquired had he simply stayed on his home terroir. From his earliest childhood, the paternal reputation of the highly respected Anselme Selosse had cast a long shadow over the young Guillaume, who next decided to spend a year in Australia in order to come back to the estate much better equipped to forge his own path. From his very first vintages, by dint of close observation and sheer hard work, Guillaume has stamped his personality on the estate, and today he produces champagnes of incomparable vivacity.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Guillaume Selosse: I don’t really see myself as a champion. One of the current struggles facing winemakers consists precisely in keeping a cool head. It is vital we always remember that wine is about shared values, not market values. We have to resist this focus on the market, even if we are, fortunately, starting to see it reach its limits, especially in Burgundy. The price curves are beginning to come down; it was getting to be obscene. The world of wine is changing now that, I believe, we have reached a tipping point.
What is your greatest source of pride?
My own cuvée Largillier, which I made without paternal support. I made it on my own, my father never entered the cellar, and his first taste of it was from the bottle. It is the first wine that I made entirely on my own.
Have you been training for long?
As a young boy, I used to run around in the cellar, climbing on the barrels, and spending Sundays with my father, who would tell me: “Smell the wine, open the valve”, and so on. I have always been in a winemaking environment.
Who is your mentor?
At the technical level, my father, because I am always picking his brain, and it’s with him that I have developed my awareness of all the factors that come into play. However, I have also gained insights from winemakers during my internships, especially from Benoît Lahaye (selected as winemaker of the year for 2021 by le Gault & Millau, ed.). But basically, it’s my father.
Is wine a team sport?
A winemaker is a conductor: you need a team that can follow your tune, otherwise, it doesn’t work. There has to be a symbiosis. We have a team of five working full time between the vineyard and in the cellar, plus two in the office, as well as my father and me.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
I think that the terroir is necessarily key, but the decisions taken during the growing season count for a lot. This is especially true for making white wine, where it all happens in the vineyard, through our decisions about pruning, disbudding, yields, and harvests. With red wines, it is easier to have an impact during vinification, but with whites, it’s much trickier.
To what do you owe your success?
To my approach to tasting wines, to my never getting fixated on a particular region or grape variety, and to my going to meet with winemakers everywhere in France and in Europe. Exchanging ideas and discussing things is crucial, including with winemakers facing very different challenges from ours. The climate is changing so much that in the future even producers of Côtes-du-Rhône could become a source of inspiration. For example, my father once took part in the grape harvests in the south, and the things he learned there were of invaluable help with the 2003 vintage.
Is your family proud of you?
I hope so, I do everything I can to make them proud of me. There is always a lot expected of the younger generation.
Your favourite colour?
Right now my most wonderful surprises come from reds, from Burgundian reds in particular.
Your hero among grape varieties?
Chardonnay.
Your favourite wine?
My favourite, for all seasons and every stage of a meal, is Les Carelles. It’s a wine that perfectly expresses where it comes from, with a slightly roasted side, which gives it a Burgundian edge.
Your favourite vintage?
2009, for which I had a role both in the harvests and in the vinifications. If 2008 is still a work in progress, 2009 is honest, regal, always transparent, and full of joy.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
Curiously, I find it has an electric side to it, it’s off the beaten track, like a character on the fringes of society.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
Surrounded by friends and family, with bites of Parmesan, setting things up for a wonderful night.
Who is your strongest competition?
The climate, including recurring spring frosts, as well as significant issues with water.
And the competition that you dread the most?
The process of bottling. As far as the harvest is concerned, we have made our decisions and we stick to them. In the cellar, we have to set up the fermentation process, achieve a certain specific gravity, and so on. It’s incredibly tricky to get it right and it’s the culmination of our entire year’s work, which makes it particularly stressful.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
I have such an emotional attachment to it that I would never want to sell it.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
My children, Tara and Lazare, who are still very young. When it comes down to it, it will be whoever is the most passionate about it and doesn’t see it as something they are pressured into doing. I get that from my father, who never put pressure on me.
Managing Director and winemaker of Château Pichon Comtesse in Pauillac: “My wine is like Kate Bush”.
The 30th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series takes us back to Bordeaux, to Pauillac, where Nicolas Glumineau, #21, creates exquisite wines with added soul. His answers reveal his insights into a winemaking profession that he has pursued for 20 years.
The vineyards of Château Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande stretch out across 102 hectares in the heart of the Pauillac appellation, close to Premier Grand Cru Château Latour. The vines have an average age of 35 years and stand on terroir comprised of fine Garonne gravel on a clay subsoil. These vines are made up of a combination of grape varieties, currently in transition, that will shortly consist of 75% Cabernet Sauvignon supplemented by Merlot and Cabernet Franc. The Rouzaud family – of Louis Roederer Champagnes – took over Pichon Comtesse in 2007, ensuring that the vision of those predecessors, who had created these wines over many decades, would be sustained. At the helm since 2012, Nicolas Glumineau is a man whose fascinating career path has made him an expert in high-precision blending, alongside his qualities of humility and humour. Every year he vinifies this exceptional Deuxième Grand Cru Classé with considerable panache.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Nicolas Glumineau: I am certainly not a champion. I am a challenger, on behalf of myself, of Pichon, of the world of wine both here in Bordeaux and globally. I sincerely hope that 2022 doesn’t turn out to be the vintage of the century because we still have 78 vintages to go!
Have you been training for long?
For 20 years. My first vinification was at Château d’Escurac, with Jean-Marc Landureau (in the Médoc Appellation, ed.). Before that I wasn’t involved in the world of wine. I studied genetics and biochemistry at the University of Bordeaux, where I worked in Denis Dubourdieu’s laboratory and played around with Sauvignon Blanc wine yeasts, creating hybrids. That gave me the opportunity to develop a rigorous scientific approach and to practise experimentation.
Who is your mentor?
I have a number of them. First and foremost come my teams, because they help me to ask myself the right questions and to delve ever further into the meaning of wine and the work that we want to accomplish. Éric Boissenot is also a mentor: he has an extraordinary palate and is a man of great humility with a tremendous amount of knowledge. Jean-Baptiste Lécaillon and Frédéric Rouzaud (respectively Cellar Master and CEO of Maison Louis Roederer, which owns Pichon Comtesse, ed.) provide us with a framework that allows us a great deal of freedom, as well as some thought-provoking perspectives which help us keep improving.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
Terroir is a very French concept, with several different elements: the soil, the subsoil, the microclimate, the grape variety, the rootstock, and the human contribution, which come together as a unity that we call the terroir. So what is key here is the terroir, in all its complexity. Nature provides us with a score and our job is simply to interpret it.
To what do you owe your success?
To my wife and to my encounters with some very inspiring wines. And then a little work has also had a part to play!
Is your wife proud of you?
I hope so.
Who is your biggest supporter?
There are two of them. The first comprises the wine-lovers and the markets who are loyal to us. The second is Frédéric Rouzaud, who has invested a great deal in this property. Over and above his financial investment, he appreciates the time and energy required to implement a long-term strategy, and viticulture is always a long-term project. Time is a necessary luxury because it allows us to experiment, to understand, and to make the wine that we want to make.
Your favourite colour?
Fifty shades of green in the forest. When it comes to wine my favourite colour depends on what we are eating.
Your hero among grape varieties?
Cabernet Sauvignon. I find it has the completeness, all the aspects and subtleties that I look for when tasting a wine, the elegance and intensity in particular. While I also find these subtleties in other grape varieties, in my view Cabernet Sauvignon expresses them best. We have undertaken a huge re-planting job at Pichon Comtesse, which has involved increasing the proportion of Cabernet Sauvignon from 60% to 75%, at the expense of Merlot and Petit Verdot. When we have finished we will have around 75% Cabernet Sauvignon, between 15% and 20% Merlot, and some Cabernet Franc. That corresponds to what we have used in our blends over the last few years.
Your favourite wine?
I am very fond of a Diamond Creek label called Red Rock Terrace. It is a Napa wine, made from Cabernet Sauvignon and grown on a north-facing plot, which always has loads of style and elegance, and is serious without being too austere. It has a truly superb balance. I recommend the 2006.
Your favourite vintage?
In Bordeaux, 1989. And at Pichon, 2022 and 1989.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
My wine is like Kate Bush because I find her elegant, powerful, sinuous, poetic, and unique.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
Listening to music, in an isolated cabin, together with friends. We have made a playlist for our website with pieces of music for each vintage, whether jazz, rock, or classical. When tasting our 1989 I would listen to The Cure’s ‘Prayers for Rain’. It was a very dry year, so the song was a perfect counterpart.
And without friends?
You can enjoy it on your own, in a good leather armchair, with a decent hi-fi system, and most importantly, nothing else, no one else around, to ensure you can savour it undisturbed.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
My wine never but myself yes, with Mersault from Domaine Jean-François Coche-Dury!
Who is your strongest competition in Pauillac?
Force of habit. Viticulture today, even more than in the past, requires us to adapt, in the vineyard and in the cellar. That means constantly questioning what we are doing, being ready to experiment, and showing good judgment. Even when we are happy with the wine we have just produced we need to reflect on what we’ve done and ask if we could have done it better still. You can be very respectful of tradition, but that doesn’t mean simply sticking to tried and tested ways. You have to observe nature, remain very humble, and always think about how to improve and evolve. In Pauillac itself we don’t go in for competition so much as emulation. The most formidable rivals are the ones who are better than us. I have a great deal of respect for the way they work with their vines at Château Latour. We have plenty of things in common, including biodynamic and organic farming. And Château Lafite Rothschild has made some tremendous wines over recent vintages, 2022 and 2018 in particular.
And the competition that you dread the most?
My greatest fear today is that climate change gets even worse. That’s the real competition. Competition in the form of trying to match our rivals is really positive, it pushes us to do even better, but there is room for everyone. On the other hand, climate change means we have to work ever harder, and push the dial on our experiments ever further. I am afraid of the serious effect that climate change might have on the kind of wine that we can make in Pauillac. 2022 will be remembered as an extraordinary vintage, absolutely massive, which is a great thing. I love it because the Pichon Comtesse we made corresponds precisely to what we have wanted to make for years, in terms of balance, power, elegance, complexity, body, and sensuality. We also love it because we were the first to be surprised that the wine was so good. That means we were not in complete control. I will never forget how challenging we found it. We had to change how we did things almost every day. Just because 2022 is a great vintage doesn’t mean it was easy to make. But it’s a source of real joy, and that’s what makes every vintage different.
What is your greatest source of pride?
My children. And also my national first aid certificate!
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
Socrates said: “All I know is that I know nothing.” Questioning everything is always the best strategy when it comes to tempering empiricism with an admixture of technology. Experimentation is always my best innovation and frequently results in less interference with the terroir. “Less is more” as they say. A good example is replacing tillage, which requires a lot of time and effort, with grass and plant cover. It’s a case of working the soil less in order to make it drain better and make it more alive. We realised that the less we worked the soil, the better it was for the vines. Working with biodynamics for the past 12 years has led us to revisit a number of established agricultural practices. In the final analysis you get higher quality production from a living soil, and when you have ripe grapes there is less need for extraction during vinification, because the balance of juice and wine is already there from the start. It is there in the fruit.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
My successor will be ranked higher than I am, so I have two: Jean-Baptiste Lécaillon and Jean-Philippe Masclef, technical director of Haut Brion.
Winemaker of this cult grower Champagne in Montgueux: “I don’t have any competitors, just hazards!”.
The 26th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series takes us to the Aube where Emmanuel Lassaigne, #25, creates some of the purest champagnes in the region at the helm of his family estate. Here he reveals the unconventional approach that has made him one of the favourite Champagne winemakers at the finest tables in the world.
Situated in Montgueux near Troyes, the Jacques Lassaigne estate, comprising 4.7 hectares, was established in 1964. Often compared to the terroir of Montrachet in Burgundy, Montgueux lies at the northern edge of the Côte des Bar, enjoying cool climatic conditions on a limestone hillside which overlooks the Seine Valley. Emmanuel Lassaigne took over in 1999, converting to organic and biodynamic cultivation. While Pinot Noir is typically planted in this region, Emmanuel Lassaigne marches to a different tune, seeking to produce distinctive Blanc de Blancs champagnes by means of vinifying partly in barrels, disgorging entirely by hand without ice, and eschewing the addition of any sulphur or sugar. This rigorous approach produces perfect champagnes for high-end gastronomy, highly sought after by top sommeliers.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Emmanuel Lassaigne: I played a lot of sport and I dreamt of being a champion: it’s a belated reward!
Have you been training for long?
Yes. When you are a winemaker you work on a solitary piece of land. If you think about it, it’s not much of a playing field. So I create ephemeral wines, always following the same approach, and I make between five and eight different cuvées every year, in sherry barrels, port barrels…so I have done a lot of training, and every vintage is different, with its own unique characteristics.
Who is your mentor?
We are fortunate in having Aux Crieurs de vin (iconic restaurant and natural wine bar in Troyes, ed.), which played a significant part in my initiation into the world of artisan natural wine. I should also mention my encounters with winemakers from the school of Lapierre (Marcel Lapierre, of Domaine Marcel Lapierre in Beaujolais, who was a pioneer in the field of organic cultivation, ed.), which have had a key role in my development.
Is wine a team sport?
We are a team in some respects, yes, but when it comes to winemaking I am on my own. I need to decide things for myself, not as part of a committee.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
The terroir. But we should put this in perspective, because not everyone shares the same taste. I think we make the wines that we like to drink ourselves and, in that sense, we are led by our personal preference. Here, we deal in small volumes and don’t have the weight of history on our shoulders. The chef de cave of a great house is a conductor who has to follow a musical score. Me, I’m a jazzman!
To what do you owe your success?
To some pivotal encounters. When I took over my parents sold our entire production directly from the estate. I wanted to outsource sales to specialist wine merchants and sommeliers. I had no connections with any restaurants back then, but I struck lucky with some Michelin-starred restaurants who promoted me. Le Meurice, Yannick Alléno, l’Astrance, Noma, and even El Celler de Can Roca, ordered my wines by the crate! I was inspired to make a wine for an aperitif, namely Les Vignes de Montgueux, a wine without added sugar which is perfect for starting a meal. After all, we don’t start with the dessert.
Is your family proud of you?
I belong to a peasant family, so we don’t discuss that sort of thing. At the same time the village derives a certain pride from what we do, since we raise the profile of the terroir through the names of our wines.
Your favourite colour?
Red.
Your favourite grape variety?
I love the heady dimension of Chardonnay and we work it like a red in order to develop a full-bodied character. I like it when you can recognise the fruit in the wine. The grape is only exciting when it’s ripe.
Your favourite wine?
I have four children and I couldn’t choose between them; the same goes for my wines. The most significant for me, however, is the first: Les Vignes de Montgueux.
Your favourite vintage?
I don’t have one, absolutely not. My favourite vintage is always the next one.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
An amalgam of Chet Baker, Miles Davis, and John Coltrane.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
You can enjoy it on your own because we have greatly developed its multisensorial side. I have gone beyond food and wine pairing because I’m a hopeless cook. I am deeply involved with music and lucky enough to have a Pleyel piano to play on here.
Who is your strongest competition?
I don’t have any competitors, just hazards!
What is your greatest trophy?
The best thing about my job is the encounters I have with chefs, sommeliers, and wine merchants.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
There are two ways of looking at this. From an internal perspective this job is not exactly a lot of fun, it’s not the stuff of dreams. I would sooner my children look outwards, even though I hope that, at some point, one of them will take over the estate.
Co-owner and winemaker of his Saint-Émilion estate: “Wine is such a complex and sophisticated product that you cannot just reduce it to a comment”.
For the 25th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series we stay in Bordeaux to meet Édouard Moueix, #26, third generation winemaker of the renowned Moueix family and co-owner, with his father Christian, of Château Bélair-Monange in Saint-Émilion and Château La Fleur-Pétrus in Pomerol. Here he shares his insight into the profession that inspires him.
Édouard Moueix is the grandson of the legendary Jean-Pierre Moueix, who spotted the potential of the Pomerol appellation before it became famous and began to acquire estates there from 1950 on. It all started with Château La Fleur-Pétrus, followed by Château Trotanoy in 1953, with Château Magdelaine, in neighbouring Saint-Émilion, picked up in 1952. The highlight, of course, would be the acquisition of Petrus. Édouard’s father, Christian Moueix, was responsible for 38 vintages of Petrus before the estate was inherited by his brother; today Petrus is managed by Édouard’s cousin. At the same time as running Petrus, Christian extended the family’s holdings, not least through the acquisition of Château Hosanna in Pomerol in 1999.
Hard-working, dedicated, and tenacious, Édouard embodies the third generation of the lineage, working alongside his father since 2003. Deeply in love with his vocation, Édouard acquired Château Bélair with his father in 2008, and played a key part in the merger of Château Bélair and Château Magdelaine, thereby creating Château Bélair-Monange, Premier Grand Cru Classé B, where he now lives with his wife and two children. This June, Édouard and his father unveiled an imposing new cellar, a major construction project designed by the renowned architects, Jacques Herzog and Pierre de Meuron.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Edouard Moueix: I certainly don’t think of myself as a champion. Instead, I see myself more as the trainer of wines that will, one day, become great champions themselves.
Have you been training for long?
In a family business like ours, education and vocational training are pretty much the same thing. Without being aware of it, I have been training since my earliest childhood, apart from a few inevitable breaks which, in turn, enabled me to return to the profession with all the more passion.
Who is your mentor?
My grandparents and my parents, and more specifically my father with whom I work every day. Then there are all our other colleagues as well: we don’t take decisions before reaching agreement with our team.
Is wine a team sport?
It goes without saying. I see myself as the team captain, not as the coach. We support each other on the field, we play as a team, and we overcome the challenges that confront us by sticking together.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
They are completely inseparable. The key thing is to strive for excellence at every stage. If I must choose between the two, I would say that you need a great terroir to make a good wine, but to get the best out of it you need good winemakers.
To what do you owe your success?
In my view there is no such thing as success in our profession because you have to start afresh with every vintage and the rules of the game change every year, even during the year. You need a steely resilience, which is a winemaker’s primary attribute. Rather than talk of success in the sense of “winning the cup” at the end of a tournament, I prefer to focus on recognition for the product and the work. Success is bringing home a vintage. If a winemaker starts thinking he has succeeded, he is on the brink of retirement!
Is your family proud of you?
I know that my children are proud of me. I hope that my wife is proud of me. As for my father, we seldom talk about our feelings. What matters is a job well done.
Who is your biggest supporter?
Nature. There are times when that doesn’t work out, but nature is the only certainty we have.
Your favourite colour?
Red, because I am immersed in this world which captivates me. Otherwise it’s blue, which represents both a sunny sky and rain – and thus our daily lives.
Your favourite grape variety?
It has to be Merlot. It is delicate and requires a lot of attention, but its main attribute is generosity, and that is what I look for in wines.
Your favourite wine?
The one we are working on right now and for which, on a daily basis, we put all our passion on the line. So it’s 2023 and, if I have to pick out a single wine, Bélair-Monange.
Your favourite vintage?
To date, 2010, because it combines power and generosity with exceptional ageing potential.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It is like our imaginary ideal, even though we may sometimes be a little disappointed.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
Whenever the mood takes you. At any time of the day or night, alone or in the company of people who appreciate and understand what the wine has to offer. Wine is for the benefit of the consumer.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
No, because that just provides an instant and short-lived effect, whereas we are working for the long term.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
There would have to be a compelling reason to sell a family estate and, thus far, I haven’t encountered one. Only the other day I asked my son, Pierre-Henri, who is 11, what he would like to do when he grows up, and he replied: “At first I want to be a sports coach, and then I want to be a winemaker.”
Who is your strongest competition?
My strongest competition is also my best friend, namely the climate. It is a friend to the extent of its generosity.
Which competition do you dread the most?
I worry most of all about the simplification of communications, which is unavoidable these days because of social networks and the like. Wine is such a complex and sophisticated product that you cannot just reduce it to a comment, or a photo, or a rating.
What is your greatest source of pride?
That we have managed to bring Bélair-Monange to the level it enjoys today, while overcoming all the challenges we faced, such as the quarry which was on the brink of collapse when we arrived here. And we took a bold gamble when we went ahead and merged the two vineyards of Magdelaine and Bélair. More recently, there is the construction of our new cellar which, I hope, will provide the ideal setting for us to produce the finest possible wines. Finally, more broadly, there is our high level of consumer confidence: it is the greatest trophy we could have hoped to win.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
We have ever more innovations at our disposal, and we need to be able to use them without losing our innate peasant nous and, above all, our patience. Here at Bélair-Monange we have performed the labours of Hercules in a very short time, albeit a very short time that has taken 15 years! We have to give nature the time to adapt and to express itself.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
A member of my family. Were it to be the next in line purely on merit, I would suggest Boris Champy, our former oenologist at Dominus (a Moueix family estate in the Napa Valley, ed.). He took on a major challenge, building up his vineyard in Burgundy pretty much from scratch. He has an innovative approach, taking a gamble on the climate. I think he deserves our very close attention.