Co-owner and winemaker of his family estate in Arbois: “I got ahead by turning to the past”
The 34th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series finds us in the heart of the Jura, where Stéphane Tissot, #17, runs his family’s 50-hectare biodynamic estate. The 53-year-old now embodies one of the region’s most emblematic vineyards, inspiring and training a whole generation of future winemakers.
Over the years, a number of key encounters have led Stéphane Tissot to adopt a radically different approach to that of his father (Hervé, ed.), “who did a good job, but in a very classical style”. Having grown up amongst the family vines, 1990 was his first vintage. As with many young winemakers, he first made his mark in the estate’s cellars, where he put a stop to the practice of stirring the lees in the Chardonnays, before reducing chemical intervention on the vines as much as possible. While working in an Australian vineyard during the off-season, he found himself opening the same packet of yeast as the ones being used in France. “I realised there was a problem, and that’s what encouraged me to move towards a healthier way of growing grapes and making wine.” His shift towards organic methods allowed him to unlearn everything that his years of study had tried to instil in him: “At the time, we were going completely against the grain of what was being done in the Jura,” he acknowledges. “In our region, you can make any kind of wine: light reds, concentrated reds, dry whites, oxidative whites, crémants, the list goes on!” Despite having now made more than forty different wines and almost ten ullaged Savagnins (where the barrels are topped up with wine to prevent the oxidation process, ed.), he doesn’t seem to have lost an ounce of his enthusiasm, with any excesses managed by his wife and teammate of 30 years, Bénédicte. “Thankfully, we enjoy what we do!” he says, before heading off for the unmissable 9 o’clock coffee break with the rest of the team.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Stéphane Tissot: My wife is against the idea of star status, we’re very much country people first and foremost. We’re often featured in the media, which we’re certainly not going to complain about. I’m very happy to receive this honour, especially as we made the choice not to have a vineyard manager or an oenologist, and to be the only ones making decisions. It is a wonderful recognition of our work.
Have you been training for long?
Since I was a child. When I got back from school, my father would be waiting for me, as I was the only one who was able to get inside the smallest barrels to clean them. My old primary school teacher once told me that, as soon as it was harvest time, my marks would suddenly take a nosedive, as my thoughts were elsewhere. And, during geography lessons, I would mix up the Rhône Valley with the Côtes-du-Rhône.
Who is your mentor?
Many people have helped us along the way, giving us ideas. The first person who helped me was Jean-Claude Ramonet, who studied with me in Beaune. We drank a lot of Chassagne-Montrachet 1983 together, and it was the first time I understood the influence of the terroir on a Chardonnay. When it comes to crémants, the estate that really made me rethink my ideas was that of Guillaume Selosse, after a tasting in the cellar there. Last but not least, here in the Jura, I can’t go without mentioning Pierre Overnoy.
Is wine a team sport?
There are two possibilities: either you run your little 3-hectare vineyard on your own, or you work as a team. There are more than thirty people who work with us, most of whom are here all year round – many even decide to settle here. They call themselves “La Tissoterie” (a play on the Tissots’ surname, ed.). The important thing for me is that people are happy to come to work.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
First, you need to know how to make wine, and how to grow grapes organically. But that is not enough – to make great wines or wines that have personality, that is where the terroir comes into play. If you have a great terroir but a bad winemaker, you won’t get anywhere.
To whom do you owe your success?
To my parents and to my wife. I am the youngest of three children, and I was the only one who was interested in making wine. My parents instilled in me the importance of working hard.
Is your family proud of you?
I think so, but that’s something that nobody ever talks about where we come from.
Who is your best sponsor?
Our agents and importers in Paris, New York, and Brussels. They are the ones who put our wines in the spotlight.
What is your favourite colour?
I think of myself more as a maker of whites, but I spend more time making reds! Just like a politician ends up spending more time with the people who don’t vote for him than with the people who do.
Your favourite grape variety?
Savagnin, the Jura’s iconic grape variety, or Poulsard – but specifically for natural wines.
Your favourite wine?
La Tour de Curon, as it’s a parcel which is a good reflection of our history. We took it over in the early 2000s. Nobody wanted it, and we replanted the whole thing in the old-fashioned way, using massal selection and with horse-drawn ploughs. For Bénédicte and me, it is almost like a fourth child.
Your favourite vintage?
1999, which was a turning-point for us, both in terms of quality and winemaking technique.
If your wine was a person, who would it look like?
As for any wine, it should look like the person who made it.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wines?
Always slightly aired, as I work a lot on reduction. It is vital to take one’s time when drinking them and to allow them to age.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wines?
I did do it to my wines at the beginning of my career, then I was the first to stop chaptalisation, and I haven’t looked back since then.
Who is your most feared opponent?
The French system, which keeps us from creating wines due to the huge amount of administrative pressure it places on us. We can’t find workers to pick our grapes, we have constant tax audits, we pay heavy social security contributions, we have to deal with anti-fraud regulation, et cetera. It is a heavy burden to bear.
And the competition that you dread the most?
In damper years, disease control is the most stressful thing. I spend my winter months in the cellar, my summer months amongst the vines – that’s the rhythm that I like, but we’re constantly playing with fire.
What is your greatest trophy?
My children.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
I have a restaurant owner friend, who carried out research into the right side of the brain – the creative side. I think my tactic has always been to follow my instinct.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
I’d rather not say, as I don’t want to put any pressure on them.
Sixth-generation winemaker of his family estate in Vosne-Romanée: “We are always competing against ourselves”.
For the 33rd interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series we remain in Burgundy to meet Charles Lachaux, #18. Winner of the Golden Vines World’s Best Rising Star Award 2021, he is one of the most exciting winemakers in Vosne-Romanée, rewriting the rulebook for a world still firmly rooted in tradition.
With some thirty-odd years under his belt, and 15 hectares of vines, comprised of 15 Côte-de-Nuits appellations, at his disposal, Charles Lachaux represents the sixth generation of the family to take his place at the helm of the estate; an estate which he radically transformed within a few short years. One of his most recent innovations has seen wooden barrels entirely replaced by ceramic sandstone vats to give the brightness of his Pinot Noirs its purest possible expression. Here is no ordinary winemaker.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Charles Lachaux: I have been in the spotlight ever since winning the Golden Vines award and this is a lovely accolade. It’s always nice to get some recognition, but it represents a snapshot in time, and you then have to maintain the same level. We can all call to mind iconic winemakers, but when you have the opportunity to achieve that status there is no margin for error. In any case, I’m not an icon yet. We will have to revisit that question in 30 years’ time!
What is your greatest source of pride?
To have taken so many risks in such a conservative region and profession in order to achieve my goals.
Have you been training for long?
You train without even being aware of it. I was always involved in every aspect of viticulture and vinification, on Wednesdays, when we didn’t have school, and at weekends. I spent all my time on the estate.
Who is your mentor?
My parents. I have worked all over the place, but I learnt my trade here on the estate and my parents are the ones who gave me the grounding to get to where I wanted. From 2012 I began to make changes, starting with “la vendange entière” (whole-cluster fermentation, in which the harvested grapes are fermented in full bunches, still attached to their stems, ed.). There have also been some notable encounters which have broadened my horizons.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, but we should acknowledge that it takes a bit of both. We could not do everything without a strong team, but there are times when you are on your own as the winemaker, as the decision-maker. It’s always a combination of the two; I have sole responsibility for the decisions I take to the best of my knowledge and belief. The decisions are ultimately down to me, even though I share a good deal with my mother.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
It is easier to make a good wine with a good terroir and good vines, because the soil and genetic quality of the vines are paramount. The winemaker can only enhance them.
To what do you owe your success?
It’s due to circumstances. I made some very bold choices at a time when the world of wine’s attention was focused on Burgundy and a radical approach was all the vogue, so that’s what I went for. A number of others did the same thing, but not at the right time. My innovations have become fashionable: vine-trellising systems are changing, and people are buying ceramic tanks. The fact that these things work, and are not mere speculation, makes other winemakers want to try them out. I have been inspired by what I have observed elsewhere: leaving the vines untrimmed like Bize-Leroy, “la vendange entière”, the older vintages of Romanée-Conti and Dujac, Nicolas Faure’s échalas (a vine-trellising system used in the northern Rhône, whereby the vines are attached to individual stakes, ed.), and so on. Lastly, my success is also thanks to my family.
Is your family proud of you?
I think so, I certainly hope they are. I could never have done it all without them.
What is your favourite colour?
Red, because it’s my favourite wine.
Your favourite grape variety?
Pinot Noir. It’s a chameleon, it can assume different hues, different aspects, it’s never boring.
Your favourite vintage?
The next one. Every year we start from scratch, we see the changes in the vines and grapes, and we fine-tune things more and more.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
If I’ve done a good job then my wine looks like where it comes from and the people who contribute to it.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
In a simple way, just wanting to have a good time. Unfortunately we have lost sight of this in Burgundy, where wine now tends to be sanctified. That’s understandable, given the prices, but all the ceremony can spoil the enjoyment.
Who is your strongest competition?
Nature, which is also our greatest ally, as well as the constantly evolving conditions of production, with all the micro-organisms, etc. Nature allows us to make progress, but it can also ruin us.
And the competition that you dread the most?
We are always under stress, but a competition implies a capacity to fight. Frost and hail are not competitions because we can’t do anything about them. We shouldn’t be afraid of competition: we are always competing against ourselves.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
Not for any price because it’s not for sale. Besides, it doesn’t belong to me, I am merely the sixth generation and it’s on loan from my children.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
Someone with the desire to keep changing and progressing and who will not be seduced by fame.
Owner and founder of Domaine Philippe Pacalet: “We haven’t built all this just to buy a yacht!”.
The 32nd interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series takes us on our sixth trip to Burgundy to meet Philippe Pacalet, #19, at his winery in the heart of Beaune, a jewel in the viticultural crown of the Côte-d’Or. Producing wines from around 20 hectares of Chardonnay, Aligoté, and Pinot Noir, he is a winemaker at the height of his popularity who is finally reaping the rewards of his remarkable staying power.
Understated, playful, hyperactive, and impressively knowledgeable, there is no shortage of epithets when it comes to describing Philippe Pacalet, an iconic figure in the Burgundy natural wine scene and nephew of the legendary Marcel Lapierre. True to his convictions, he faced a real obstacle course upon entering the world of wine, having to endure widespread criticism before becoming, at long last, the height of fashion.
“In the 1980s we experienced a good deal of hostility, even malice. People were simply not ready for it. I am fond of saying that we were a bit too early getting to the station. I believe that the natural wine train has eventually arrived and this time we have managed to get on board.”
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Philippe Pacalet: I am honoured that people are taking an interest in me, and that my longevity and my determination to respect and improve on the work of our predecessors are being acknowledged. I just get on with it and, in any case, I don’t know how to do anything else. I keep my feet on the ground, and I think I’m on the right track. Over the course of 30 years, some things about me have changed. Back in the day, it was a constant battle, and I couldn’t let things go. Later, I began to mature, and now it’s gratifying to be recognised by my peers.
What is your greatest source of pride?
Being able to make a good wine with lovely aromas together with my team, and the fact that this allows me to live a happy life. I have been fortunate to find something that I am good at. It was always there inside me, but someone has to make it resonate for you. In this respect, encounters with others play a major part.
Have you been training for long?
I began to train seriously when I was 21, the age of reason but also of stupidity! That said, I have been immersed in the world of wine since I was tiny.
Who is your mentor?
Marcel Lapierre, my uncle, who taught me the value of traditional “farmer’s wisdom” and love for people, Jules Chavet for the scientific side of things, Jacques Néauport for his artist’s soul, and Michel Archawski who taught me how to run a business.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, a winemaker needs support. It is important to build a team and develop its expertise, but there are still decisions that you have to make on your own. It’s a profession with a very solitary side.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
Both of them. I believe that you need sensitivity, hard work, and a bit of passion. Terroir and winemaker go together, they form a unity. They are like a couple; things are not always easy. Humans are vertical creatures, whereas the ground is horizontal. It’s a meeting of the two, and there isn’t always a right angle!
To what do you owe your success?
I owe it to always having believed in what I was doing, to having stood up for my ideals, and to having listened, at least sometimes, to my friends. Finally, I owe it to having always had the courage, in moments of uncertainty, to go back to keeping things simple.
Is your family proud of you?
Yes, they have been brave enough to point me in the right direction and they have put their faith in me.
What is your favourite colour?
It has to be red, because I have been drinking it for a long time. These days I also make rosé (at Château Malherbe, ed.) and I drink some white wine, but red is still my favourite.
Your favourite grape variety?
Pinot Noir, which can be virile, not in a macho sense of course, can have an artistic side, and can engender powerful emotions. It has an earthy quality and is packed with power, elegance, and aromas. It keeps your feet on the ground.
Your favourite vintage?
1998, which has become a great vintage late in the day.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It looks like the person who made it. Wine is a mirror which sometimes reflects mediocrity, sometimes genius.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
With people I love, sitting around a table, not necessarily with food.
Who is your strongest competition?
Doing things by rote, which is the Achilles heel of our profession.
And the competition that you dread the most?
There isn’t one. What I find most stressful is the bureaucratic red tape which infuriates me.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
It’s not for sale so it doesn’t have a price.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
My children. My son, who is 30, already works with me, and will take over the estate, probably with his sister. We haven’t built all this just to buy a yacht!