Winemaker of his legendary family estate in Champagne: “There is always a lot expected of the younger generation”.
For the 31st interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series we pay our sixth visit to Champagne to meet Guillaume Selosse, #20, who is now at the helm of one of the region’s most sought-after estates. A model of discretion, he makes uniquely thrilling wines whose ratings continue to soar.
Domaine Jacques Selosse, founded by Guillaume’s grandfather, is situated in Avize, a small village in the Côte de Blancs. Known long ago as Ozannel-la-belle, Avize has been renowned since the 18th century for its well-balanced Blancs de Blancs champagnes, classified Grand Cru. Jacques Selosse settled here shortly after the Second World War in 1947 and, despite not coming from a family of winemakers, soon acquired some vines. In 1949 Jacques and his wife founded the estate that still bears his name, and the couple made their own wine for the first time in 1964. Ten years later their son, Anselme, joined the estate and embarked on an extended exploration of the methods and practices of viticulture and vinification. His never-ending quest for perfection lasted throughout his career. From 1990 to 1996 he applied the principles of organic farming, then graduated to a biodynamic approach. But from 2002 he distanced himself from the established norms of biodynamic doctrine, taking the view that we should not impose on nature. Over the last few years Anselme’s son, Guillaume, representing the third generation, has taken up the reins with verve.
Paradoxically, it was in Bordeaux that this new star of the Champagne winemaking galaxy experienced his true epiphany, while studying viticulture and oenology in Saint-Émilion. This was a carefully considered sideways step, which enabled Guillaume to meet young prospective winemakers from all around the world. It gave him a very different take on things than he could have acquired had he simply stayed on his home terroir. From his earliest childhood, the paternal reputation of the highly respected Anselme Selosse had cast a long shadow over the young Guillaume, who next decided to spend a year in Australia in order to come back to the estate much better equipped to forge his own path. From his very first vintages, by dint of close observation and sheer hard work, Guillaume has stamped his personality on the estate, and today he produces champagnes of incomparable vivacity.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Guillaume Selosse: I don’t really see myself as a champion. One of the current struggles facing winemakers consists precisely in keeping a cool head. It is vital we always remember that wine is about shared values, not market values. We have to resist this focus on the market, even if we are, fortunately, starting to see it reach its limits, especially in Burgundy. The price curves are beginning to come down; it was getting to be obscene. The world of wine is changing now that, I believe, we have reached a tipping point.
What is your greatest source of pride?
My own cuvée Largillier, which I made without paternal support. I made it on my own, my father never entered the cellar, and his first taste of it was from the bottle. It is the first wine that I made entirely on my own.
Have you been training for long?
As a young boy, I used to run around in the cellar, climbing on the barrels, and spending Sundays with my father, who would tell me: “Smell the wine, open the valve”, and so on. I have always been in a winemaking environment.
Who is your mentor?
At the technical level, my father, because I am always picking his brain, and it’s with him that I have developed my awareness of all the factors that come into play. However, I have also gained insights from winemakers during my internships, especially from Benoît Lahaye (selected as winemaker of the year for 2021 by le Gault & Millau, ed.). But basically, it’s my father.
Is wine a team sport?
A winemaker is a conductor: you need a team that can follow your tune, otherwise, it doesn’t work. There has to be a symbiosis. We have a team of five working full time between the vineyard and in the cellar, plus two in the office, as well as my father and me.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
I think that the terroir is necessarily key, but the decisions taken during the growing season count for a lot. This is especially true for making white wine, where it all happens in the vineyard, through our decisions about pruning, disbudding, yields, and harvests. With red wines, it is easier to have an impact during vinification, but with whites, it’s much trickier.
To what do you owe your success?
To my approach to tasting wines, to my never getting fixated on a particular region or grape variety, and to my going to meet with winemakers everywhere in France and in Europe. Exchanging ideas and discussing things is crucial, including with winemakers facing very different challenges from ours. The climate is changing so much that in the future even producers of Côtes-du-Rhône could become a source of inspiration. For example, my father once took part in the grape harvests in the south, and the things he learned there were of invaluable help with the 2003 vintage.
Is your family proud of you?
I hope so, I do everything I can to make them proud of me. There is always a lot expected of the younger generation.
Your favourite colour?
Right now my most wonderful surprises come from reds, from Burgundian reds in particular.
Your hero among grape varieties?
Chardonnay.
Your favourite wine?
My favourite, for all seasons and every stage of a meal, is Les Carelles. It’s a wine that perfectly expresses where it comes from, with a slightly roasted side, which gives it a Burgundian edge.
Your favourite vintage?
2009, for which I had a role both in the harvests and in the vinifications. If 2008 is still a work in progress, 2009 is honest, regal, always transparent, and full of joy.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
Curiously, I find it has an electric side to it, it’s off the beaten track, like a character on the fringes of society.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
Surrounded by friends and family, with bites of Parmesan, setting things up for a wonderful night.
Who is your strongest competition?
The climate, including recurring spring frosts, as well as significant issues with water.
And the competition that you dread the most?
The process of bottling. As far as the harvest is concerned, we have made our decisions and we stick to them. In the cellar, we have to set up the fermentation process, achieve a certain specific gravity, and so on. It’s incredibly tricky to get it right and it’s the culmination of our entire year’s work, which makes it particularly stressful.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
I have such an emotional attachment to it that I would never want to sell it.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
My children, Tara and Lazare, who are still very young. When it comes down to it, it will be whoever is the most passionate about it and doesn’t see it as something they are pressured into doing. I get that from my father, who never put pressure on me.
Managing Director and winemaker of Château Pichon Comtesse in Pauillac: “My wine is like Kate Bush”.
The 30th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series takes us back to Bordeaux, to Pauillac, where Nicolas Glumineau, #21, creates exquisite wines with added soul. His answers reveal his insights into a winemaking profession that he has pursued for 20 years.
The vineyards of Château Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande stretch out across 102 hectares in the heart of the Pauillac appellation, close to Premier Grand Cru Château Latour. The vines have an average age of 35 years and stand on terroir comprised of fine Garonne gravel on a clay subsoil. These vines are made up of a combination of grape varieties, currently in transition, that will shortly consist of 75% Cabernet Sauvignon supplemented by Merlot and Cabernet Franc. The Rouzaud family – of Louis Roederer Champagnes – took over Pichon Comtesse in 2007, ensuring that the vision of those predecessors, who had created these wines over many decades, would be sustained. At the helm since 2012, Nicolas Glumineau is a man whose fascinating career path has made him an expert in high-precision blending, alongside his qualities of humility and humour. Every year he vinifies this exceptional Deuxième Grand Cru Classé with considerable panache.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Nicolas Glumineau: I am certainly not a champion. I am a challenger, on behalf of myself, of Pichon, of the world of wine both here in Bordeaux and globally. I sincerely hope that 2022 doesn’t turn out to be the vintage of the century because we still have 78 vintages to go!
Have you been training for long?
For 20 years. My first vinification was at Château d’Escurac, with Jean-Marc Landureau (in the Médoc Appellation, ed.). Before that I wasn’t involved in the world of wine. I studied genetics and biochemistry at the University of Bordeaux, where I worked in Denis Dubourdieu’s laboratory and played around with Sauvignon Blanc wine yeasts, creating hybrids. That gave me the opportunity to develop a rigorous scientific approach and to practise experimentation.
Who is your mentor?
I have a number of them. First and foremost come my teams, because they help me to ask myself the right questions and to delve ever further into the meaning of wine and the work that we want to accomplish. Éric Boissenot is also a mentor: he has an extraordinary palate and is a man of great humility with a tremendous amount of knowledge. Jean-Baptiste Lécaillon and Frédéric Rouzaud (respectively Cellar Master and CEO of Maison Louis Roederer, which owns Pichon Comtesse, ed.) provide us with a framework that allows us a great deal of freedom, as well as some thought-provoking perspectives which help us keep improving.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
Terroir is a very French concept, with several different elements: the soil, the subsoil, the microclimate, the grape variety, the rootstock, and the human contribution, which come together as a unity that we call the terroir. So what is key here is the terroir, in all its complexity. Nature provides us with a score and our job is simply to interpret it.
To what do you owe your success?
To my wife and to my encounters with some very inspiring wines. And then a little work has also had a part to play!
Is your wife proud of you?
I hope so.
Who is your biggest supporter?
There are two of them. The first comprises the wine-lovers and the markets who are loyal to us. The second is Frédéric Rouzaud, who has invested a great deal in this property. Over and above his financial investment, he appreciates the time and energy required to implement a long-term strategy, and viticulture is always a long-term project. Time is a necessary luxury because it allows us to experiment, to understand, and to make the wine that we want to make.
Your favourite colour?
Fifty shades of green in the forest. When it comes to wine my favourite colour depends on what we are eating.
Your hero among grape varieties?
Cabernet Sauvignon. I find it has the completeness, all the aspects and subtleties that I look for when tasting a wine, the elegance and intensity in particular. While I also find these subtleties in other grape varieties, in my view Cabernet Sauvignon expresses them best. We have undertaken a huge re-planting job at Pichon Comtesse, which has involved increasing the proportion of Cabernet Sauvignon from 60% to 75%, at the expense of Merlot and Petit Verdot. When we have finished we will have around 75% Cabernet Sauvignon, between 15% and 20% Merlot, and some Cabernet Franc. That corresponds to what we have used in our blends over the last few years.
Your favourite wine?
I am very fond of a Diamond Creek label called Red Rock Terrace. It is a Napa wine, made from Cabernet Sauvignon and grown on a north-facing plot, which always has loads of style and elegance, and is serious without being too austere. It has a truly superb balance. I recommend the 2006.
Your favourite vintage?
In Bordeaux, 1989. And at Pichon, 2022 and 1989.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
My wine is like Kate Bush because I find her elegant, powerful, sinuous, poetic, and unique.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
Listening to music, in an isolated cabin, together with friends. We have made a playlist for our website with pieces of music for each vintage, whether jazz, rock, or classical. When tasting our 1989 I would listen to The Cure’s ‘Prayers for Rain’. It was a very dry year, so the song was a perfect counterpart.
And without friends?
You can enjoy it on your own, in a good leather armchair, with a decent hi-fi system, and most importantly, nothing else, no one else around, to ensure you can savour it undisturbed.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
My wine never but myself yes, with Mersault from Domaine Jean-François Coche-Dury!
Who is your strongest competition in Pauillac?
Force of habit. Viticulture today, even more than in the past, requires us to adapt, in the vineyard and in the cellar. That means constantly questioning what we are doing, being ready to experiment, and showing good judgment. Even when we are happy with the wine we have just produced we need to reflect on what we’ve done and ask if we could have done it better still. You can be very respectful of tradition, but that doesn’t mean simply sticking to tried and tested ways. You have to observe nature, remain very humble, and always think about how to improve and evolve. In Pauillac itself we don’t go in for competition so much as emulation. The most formidable rivals are the ones who are better than us. I have a great deal of respect for the way they work with their vines at Château Latour. We have plenty of things in common, including biodynamic and organic farming. And Château Lafite Rothschild has made some tremendous wines over recent vintages, 2022 and 2018 in particular.
And the competition that you dread the most?
My greatest fear today is that climate change gets even worse. That’s the real competition. Competition in the form of trying to match our rivals is really positive, it pushes us to do even better, but there is room for everyone. On the other hand, climate change means we have to work ever harder, and push the dial on our experiments ever further. I am afraid of the serious effect that climate change might have on the kind of wine that we can make in Pauillac. 2022 will be remembered as an extraordinary vintage, absolutely massive, which is a great thing. I love it because the Pichon Comtesse we made corresponds precisely to what we have wanted to make for years, in terms of balance, power, elegance, complexity, body, and sensuality. We also love it because we were the first to be surprised that the wine was so good. That means we were not in complete control. I will never forget how challenging we found it. We had to change how we did things almost every day. Just because 2022 is a great vintage doesn’t mean it was easy to make. But it’s a source of real joy, and that’s what makes every vintage different.
What is your greatest source of pride?
My children. And also my national first aid certificate!
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
Socrates said: “All I know is that I know nothing.” Questioning everything is always the best strategy when it comes to tempering empiricism with an admixture of technology. Experimentation is always my best innovation and frequently results in less interference with the terroir. “Less is more” as they say. A good example is replacing tillage, which requires a lot of time and effort, with grass and plant cover. It’s a case of working the soil less in order to make it drain better and make it more alive. We realised that the less we worked the soil, the better it was for the vines. Working with biodynamics for the past 12 years has led us to revisit a number of established agricultural practices. In the final analysis you get higher quality production from a living soil, and when you have ripe grapes there is less need for extraction during vinification, because the balance of juice and wine is already there from the start. It is there in the fruit.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
My successor will be ranked higher than I am, so I have two: Jean-Baptiste Lécaillon and Jean-Philippe Masclef, technical director of Haut Brion.
Winemaker of this revered estate in Pommard: “I’m a bit of a junkyard dog!”.
The 21st interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series finds us on our third visit to Burgundy to meet Paul Zinetti, #30. Burgundian by birth, he joined Domaine du Comte Armand, among the most iconic Côte-d’Or estates, in 2010, and took over the winemaking reins from Benjamin Leroux in 2014. Today he cultivates nine hectares of vines in Pommard, where the estate is based, together with vineyard plots in Volnay and Auxey-Duresses.
Paul Zinetti is forthright and unconcerned with social niceties. As a manager who is not an owner – a rarity in Burgundy – he laughingly admits to his lack of formal qualifications, being neither an oenologist nor even the holder of a technical diploma. “I’m a bit of a junkyard dog!”, declares the forty-year-old in a deliberately provocative manner. Yet, you can feel his extraordinary sensitivity, his capacity to observe and interpret a terroir whose nature changes with the passing years, which allows him to produce wines of exceptional finesse from every vintage.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Paul Zinetti: It makes me happy, but I will be humble about it as I have never set much store by awards.
Have you been training for long?
Since I was 18. I spent five years in Languedoc, then I came back up to Mâconnais, before landing in Côte-d’Or.
Who is your mentor?
Dominique Lafon, in Mersault, and his brother Bruno in Languedoc. I have built up my know-how by learning from a number of winemakers, but those are the two who have really inspired me.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, I’m a bit like the captain of the ship, and my team follows me.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
Both of them. I depend on the terroir, but I try to give it the best possible interpretation through my wines. Terroir and winemaker must go hand in hand. Great terroirs give you an advantage, but you have to know how to handle them, how to tame them. You will never be able to make great wines from poor terroir, although I appreciate that global warming means you can make good wines pretty much everywhere.
To what do you owe your success?
To myself.
Is your family proud of you?
A little bit, I think. They are happy rather than proud. These are things that remain unspoken.
Your favourite colour?
Red for wine, otherwise green.
Your favourite grape variety?
Pinot Noir, which is sensitive and refined.
Your favourite wine?
Le Grand Rouge from Revelette, for sentimental reasons.
Your favourite vintage?
2015, which I believe will turn out to be a great vintage.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It would be a Scorpio, which is my astrological sign. With my wines it’s a case of “all or nothing”, as they say. They are full-on wines.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
Among friends.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
Personally never, but I did adulterate my wine when I was young. That said, red wine is an excellent stimulant. We should remember that they used to drink red wine on the Tour de France back in the 1920s.
Who is your strongest competition?
Myself, first and foremost.
Which competition do you dread the most?
The seasons of pruning and harvesting, namely spring and summer.
What is your greatest trophy?
My children.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
Constant observation and questioning everything. What was true five years ago is by no means necessarily true today.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
Raphaële Tinoco, a young woman already on our estate team, who I hope will take over one day.