Burgandy’s talented winemaker: “I juice myself up on Pinot Noir”.
For the 40th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series, we return to the Morey-Saint-Denis to meet Jacques Devauges, who stands at #10 in the rankings. A staunch supporter of the Côte-de-Nuits, he is an advocate of excellence. From one estate to the next, he continues to pursue the same goal: expressing the nobility of the Morey-Saint-Denis terroir.
The former manager of Clos de Tart between 2015 and early 2019, Jacques Devauges joined Domaine des Lambrays that same year, moving from an estate owned by François Pinault to one owned by Bernard Arnault. It was “chance and a series of encounters”, he explains, that brought him to where he is today. Although nothing predestined him for the world of winemaking, he fell in love with it during a harvest season, with his baccalauréat in hand, at a small estate in Pommard. “After that, I met some intelligent people who put their trust in me”, he says with humility. Today, as head of Domaine des Lambrays, a leading Côte-de-Nuits estate, he intends to continue the work of his predecessors, while instilling a new energy and uniting a team around his most deeply held principles. Here, we talk to a modest man who listens attentively to his terroir.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
I distance myself a lot from these things. I’m incredibly lucky to be doing a job that I’m passionate about. When you get up in the morning and love what you do, everything is easy. So, I don’t see myself as a champion. The Arnault family trusts me and has handed me the opportunity to work with some extraordinary plots.
Have you been training for long?
I chose to work in the field. I have a degree in oenology, of course, but I started from the ground up.
Who is your mentor?
I didn’t really have one mentor in particular. I met Denis Mortet, a winemaker from Morey-Saint-Denis, who helped me a lot when I didn’t know anyone, then Christian Seely, the President of Axa Millésimes, who gave me the keys to the Domaine de l’Arlot, and finally Sylvain Pitiot, who I consider to be one of the greatest Burgundian winemakers, as much for his professionalism as for his warm personality.
Is wine a team sport?
Completely. You can’t do anything on your own. Before we talk about the wine, we talk about the vine. The sense of team spirit is strong because it’s rooted in time. It’s not just a horizontal team but also a vertical one, across the generations, and that’s what I find so powerful about our profession. It’s a real pleasure to come into a field and get your teams motivated by a project. You can’t have a vision on your own. You have to get everyone on board, not just the team, but your customers too.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
The terroir of course. It’s a bit of a cliché, but you need a great winemaker to make a great wine, it’s a symbiotic relationship. The climate is just as important as the soil and the work of the winemaker. All these elements have to be present for a wine to inspire emotion. That’s not to say that you should only drink grands crus costing thousands of euros. Emotion is the alchemy of a whole range of elements. That’s why wine is so fascinating.
To what do you owe your success?
I see myself as a student. Every year brings a new challenge, and you have to try new things, so I can’t explain my success, because I learn something new every year. This desire to adapt and observe is essential. You must remain humble and curious, and strive to produce pure, precise, clean wines that fully reflect the place from which they come.
Is your family proud of you?
My mother is, and always has been – that’s a mother’s role.
What is your favourite colour?
A very distinctive colour, that of very old Burgundies from the 1920s and 1930s, up to 1940. Pale in intensity, with a pinkish transparency and hints of faded pink, it could almost be a shade of tea. In a nutshell, somewhere between aged pink and tea. These are moments you remember for the rest of your life. Wine is also about working with the generations that came before us, and this colour is there to remind us of that. These are wines of impressive power.
Your favourite grape variety?
I’m a big fan of Pinot Noir, which is what moves me the most, but I also like Gamay grown on granite soils, and Syrah from the Northern Rhône.
Your favourite wine?
Clos des Lambrays has a fascinating terroir, something that everyone can see when they walk through the vines. There’s an extraordinary diversity that can be found in the wines, which have a very elegant mouthfeel. It’s because of this parallel with the landscape that I love it so much. Long before I arrived at the domaine in 2002, I tasted a Clos des Lambrays 1918, and it still impresses me now as it did then.
Your favourite vintage?
I like fragile, complicated vintages, which you can feel when you taste them. Decades later, they’re still standing. I’m reminded of 1918 or 1938, which are forgotten years, with a historic dimension.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
No idea, I don’t think it’s for me to say. Each one has its own identity, and I like to think that the identity of each wine is linked to the soil. We produce nine different wines, each with its own personality.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
Whenever the mood strikes; it’s the opportunity that creates the greatest tasting moments. Sometimes a friend or family member drops by, and you’re drawn to one bottle rather than another. Those are the best moments. For our wines, you have to open them three hours in advance, without putting the cork back in.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
I juice myself up on Pinot Noir. But at the estate, we have this ideal of purity, which means using as few inputs as possible.
Who is your most feared competitor?
The hazards of nature, which are extremely frustrating. No matter how hard we work, when Nature decides otherwise, she’s always right. Every vintage has its difficulties, to a greater or lesser extent, but we try to turn them into strengths. In 2021 for example, Nature was unkind, but a few years later, I’m delighted with this vintage, which I didn’t see coming, with the grace, elegance, and delicacy that we’ve come to expect from the climate. If you’re clever enough, you can make a friend out of it.
And your greatest achievement?
To see that my team at the estate is supporting me in this project. We went organic, then biodynamic, and it makes me proud to have a whole team who wasn’t in that frame of mind before, and who now couldn’t go back. And the customers, who are rediscovering Clos des Lambrays. These are the two driving forces behind our passion.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
At the estate, we renovated our facilities in 2022, which took us two years to complete. We developed a gravity system, which is very simple: in the centre of the building, we have two vats that go up and down, and the wine flows very naturally. We have developed unique wooden vats, ones that are not truncated. We’ve had cylindrical vats developed, which allow us to use a movable ceiling that forms a watertight seal, enabling us to keep our bunches whole before fermentation starts. This system allows us to avoid using acetate and to vinify in oak.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
I’d like to find someone who thinks differently from me, not about the fundamentals, but about how to get to them. Someone who takes this estate, these terroirs, and this domaine head on and finds their own way to express it.
Winemaker of the family-run estate: “We have never compromised”
Our next interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series takes us to Morey-Saint-Denis, in Burgundy, where we meet Christophe Perrot-Minot, #12, who continues to forge his own path and ruffle a few feathers along the way.
The former courtier, forever championing the expression of the terroir, and whose knowledge of viticultural regions informs the expertise of his Burgundian know-how, refuses to forsake perfection in the pursuit of profitability. The winemaker, aware of the allure of Burgundy’s Grand Crus, is driven, above all, by the desire to express the taste of his vineyard – a powerful voice, both refined and gracefully tannic, which impels you to listen. To hear it, nothing must be overlooked. Although the estate sources grapes from various plots across the Côte-de-Nuits, Christophe Perrot-Minot supervises every harvest, carried out by his own team, be it in Gevrey-Chambertin or Clos de Vougeot. Organically certified for the past few years, Domaine Perrot- Minot belongs to one of the most sought-after appellations, an appellation that is facing necessary changes to preserve its nature. This challenge – to reveal what the land does not give you outright – is one the winemaker takes up with gusto.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Christophe Perrot-Minot – I really don’t consider myself to be a winemaking champion, it’s not something I’ve ever thought about.
Have you been training for long?
I’ve been training for over 30 years. I arrived at the estate in 1933 and before that, I had played at being a wine broker for seven years. This gave me a great overview of what everyone was doing: I could walk into a cellar one morning and meet someone who was struggling to solve a certain problem; a few hours later I would walk into a second cellar where a different person had faced the same issue and solved it years prior. Just like that, I would bring the solution back to that first person. This helped me take a step back and gain perspective on this profession. That experience was the intellectual key, the key to realising what I wanted to be doing, the key to achieving the result I had in mind, to obtain the style of wines that I wanted.
Who is your mentor?
My only mentors have been observation and reflection, because at the end of the day, I have never collaborated or vinified with my father. When I joined the estate in 1993, he handed the reigns over to me. For everything related to vinification, I had a pretty clear vision of what had to be done and avoided, a vision that was in opposition to the previous generation’s, who cared more about production. This had a lot to do with the education of the time. When I first arrived, I had ideas that went against those of my father in terms of lower yields, of sorting – all these things were very hard to accept for that generation. They had been told, in the 1980s, that you needed to plant productive clones. There was a time when Burgundy was more focussed on quantity than quality. We had to fight to switch gears and convince people, for example, to throw out grapes. Things didn’t change in a year! As for the sorting, we implemented it as soon as I started, but accepting this practice took much longer.
Is wine a team sport?
Wine is a team sport. Everyone needs to understand what direction we’re going in and accept it. You also need to surround yourself with competent people. You can’t make wine, let alone good wine, without a team. A winemaker can’t do everything themselves. You mustn’t forget that it takes many hands to craft a wine. All those hands, put together, give the grapes their potential. And this before even mentioning their provenance, the terroir… I also know that my opinion needs to be contradictory, and I have a right-hand man at the estate with whom I talk about different options regarding the bottling, harvest dates, and many other parameters. I think you move forward more efficiently when you can eliminate any doubt or hesitation. For me, the key to success is having a competent team you can exchange ideas with in order to move forward. I often like to say that they would be nothing without me, and I, nothing without them.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the team?
It’s always easier to make a great wine with a good terroir. But in a team, everyone is moving in the same direction, and you can express the terroir with even greater quality.
To whom do you owe your success?
I think the estate’s success is linked to the people that work there, and to our relentless pursuit of quality. That is, we prioritise the intrinsic quality of the grapes during vinification. We don’t think about the bottom line when we’re sorting them, or that we’re getting rid of “Grand Cru” grapes. We don’t calculate how much we’re losing when we discard some of them. No. We have a clear vision that is entirely based on the grapes’ intrinsic quality, without worrying about the appellation. I think for us, there is a lot of discipline and very little compromise – perhaps no comprise at all – on how the grapes that enter our vats need to be.
Who has been your biggest sponsor throughout your career?
Our best sponsor has been consistency. By which, I mean that we have never compromised. Whatever the vintage, we have always managed to keep the best grapes. “Whatever the cost”, as our president would say (a political doctrine coined by French president Emmanuel Macron during the Covid-19 outbreak, ed.). Whether we’re sorting Burgundy, Morey, or Chambertin plots, the process will always be the same. Why? Because I think all wines reflect an estate, its ambitions, its absolute character, and that of the people who work there. So, this refusal to compromise is a form of self-respect, and of respect for our clients. Moreover, everyone knows that Burgundy wines are expensive, but you mustn’t forget that there are people willing to pay €30 or €40 for a bottle of Burgundy – and I’m talking about the Burgundy appellation – which is a fortune. This might be the most they spend on a bottle in a year. And that’s why the estate’s most affordable bottle must be faultless. This is what I think.
Your favourite colour?
Red. In all its different shades. You can find a lot of different personalities in reds.
Your favourite cuvée?
The Mazoyères-Chambertin. Because it’s an appellation that I’m in the process of reviving. Everyone knows that when you’re making Mazoyères-Chambertin, you can call it Charmes-Chambertin. For marketing reasons, or for ease, it’s sold under the name Charmes-Chambertin. When in reality it has a completely distinct personality from Charmes-Chambertin, and it deserves to exist independently.
Your three favourite vintages?
The 1993, because it was my first. The 2003, because it was my first time vinifying an extremely hot harvest. After that, I would say the one that followed.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It would be the people that made it.
In that case, would it be you?
Even though it’s the product of teamwork, the style is personal. My team is so committed, that they will work to achieve the style that I want to see, that I’m looking for. My desired style is balanced, elegant, and refined wines. With tannins that are integrated, silky. Wines that, I would say, can be good regardless of time. I always think of Henri Jayer (a French producer credited with introducing important innovations to Burgundian winemaking, ed.), who used to tell me: “Christophe, a good young wine makes a good aged wine” and “a good wine needs to be good at all times”. It was so simple yet so true.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing your estate?
What really led to a change in quality, beyond the work and everything we have done these past 10 years, was our organic conversion, despite being long overdue. With this organic conversion, we noticed how the wines became more transparent and luminous. The juice became much more precise. And this increased the quality massively.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
You can’t sell something you’re only renting, so it is not for sale.
France’s 13th best winemaker: “I love drinking fine wines with people who know nothing about them”.
The mere mention of the name of this Grand Cru Classé is enough to send wine-lovers into a frenzy, and even those who have never had the chance to taste it agree that this is a Château destined to go down in history.
For the 38th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series, we return to the border between Pomerol and Saint-Émilion, and Château Cheval Blanc, which is owned by the LVMH group and the Frère family. In July 2023, Pierre Lurton was appointed President of the Management Board, while Pierre-Olivier Clouet was promoted to Managing Director – arguably one of the most globally envied positions in the Bordelais appellations. Clouet, who describes himself as “incorrigibly hyperactive”, joined the estate as an apprentice but rose through the ranks with the elegance of a cat, gradually gaining the trust of Pierre, his mentor and great friend, who conferred on him the role of technical director at the age of 28. As well as his charm and extraordinary capacity for work, the fact that he did not come from a wine background was a considerable advantage for the young Norman, who very early on dared to “say out loud what others were thinking”. He is a free and rebellious spirit wrapped up in the demeanour of a gentleman farmer and bears a humility that allows him to assert his ideas with great ease.
“When I think about it, it was surreal”, he recalls with a burst of laughter. “At first, the suit seemed much too big for me”. The future proved him wrong, and it was alongside a close-knit team that he succeeded, one by one, in meeting the challenges posed to an estate that had to demonstrate its modernity without ever denying its roots. Creating a white wine from scratch, opting for agroforestry, finding plots of land at the foot of the Andes – all of these challenges have been overcome thanks to “the stability that Pierre has been able to give me for many years, which has allowed me to see each of our developments through in the long-term”.
Le Figaro Vin – How does it feel to be crowned a wine-making champion?
As always, I wonder why I was chosen! It’s something I’m very proud of, and I’m delighted that people come looking for me. 15 years ago, I was a nobody, and I never had a career plan. I feel both very grateful and infinitely small.
Have you been training for long?
Not really, no. Some winemakers made my eyes light up when I was a student, I wanted to “be just like them”, as children say. It’s an environment that allows you to come into contact with so many different disciplines – there’s the agricultural side, the technological side, the emotional side – and you meet people you’d never think you’d meet.
Who is your mentor?
First and foremost, it would have to be Pierre, who gave me a chance at a time when nobody could see what I could bring to the table. He’s always been kind, letting me off the hook as I’ve developed and gained confidence in myself. He supported me, and even though we have different personalities, I owe it all to him.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, without question. Especially in our maisons, because on a small estate, there is a stronger representation of the winemaker. Here, we have a lot of input from everyone, from all those who have inspired us from near and far, and in particular from the people who have accompanied us through all the transformations we have undertaken. Cheval Blanc is too much for just one person.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
What makes a great wine is the terroir, but what ensures that it doesn’t fail is the winemaker. In our vision of a cru, rather than a brand, our task is to convey the taste of the region. Vintage is also of absolute importance.
To what do you owe your success?
Sincerity. I’m not a schemer, I have an ability to get people on board, to unite teams. And I’m hyperactive, so that obviously plays a part too.
Is your family proud of you?
Yes, and I think it’s wonderful that my family isn’t from the wine scene. It takes me out of my microcosm and brings me down to earth. You have to go out into the real world, where you can enjoy simple wines. My parents still marvel at the bottles I open for them from time to time, and that’s fantastic. When I think about it, I love drinking great wines with people who know nothing about them.
Your favourite colour?
Red, even though white wines, which I’m drinking more and more, have a great deal of precision. I think you can read more about the terroir in red wines, particularly through the tannins, which reflect the way in which the vines have been able to draw on what the land has provided.
Your favourite wine variety?
Cabernet Franc, because it is the father of all Bordeaux grape varieties. It has spawned much more popular offspring that itself, notably Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot, but it has the advantage of being versatile and offering enormous diversity.
Your favourite wine?
I’m a big fan of Mas Jullien (in the Terrasses du Larzac appellation, ed.), which is a wine of tremendous precision, and in particular the Autour de Jonquières cuvée.
Your favourite vintage?
2018, which is a truly spectacular Cheval Blanc.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
Chopin, for its universality, emotion, timelessness and classicism. His first concert took place in Paris in 1832, the year the estate was founded in its current guise.
What’s the best way to enjoy it?
With nice people. It’s such a complex wine. A great wine shouldn’t be tasted for what it is, but because it can provoke great conversations.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
No, never. That’s one of the most important things: we don’t allow ourselves to modify our grapes. Expressing a terroir does not mean upsetting its natural balance. You learn as you get older that you must do as little as possible.
Who is your strongest competition?
The weather, and that’s just for starters. It’s an increasingly tough opponent, and if we win today, it’s doubtful that we’ll win again tomorrow.
Which competition do you dread the most?
Bottling. It’s the last moment we actually see our wines. From that point on, they no longer belong to us. After that, I have no more expertise than a collector. I know how to assess our wines as they are made.
What is your greatest trophy?
Getting the message across that there was a whole other debate going on in the wine world than just about the differences between organic and biodynamic winegrowing. You must understand the life of your soil, the need to get rid of monoculture and bring back diversity. This is the future of winegrowing, but also of humanity. I’m proud to have played my part, rising above the petty arguments that drag the debate down. The battle isn’t over yet, but we’ve made a step in the right direction.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
I don’t know at this stage, perhaps a future former trainee. I’d like it to be a woman because that would be a first. Although we’re not a family estate, our owners have a very family-orientated vision of the vineyard, and the notion of succession through the generations is essential.
Father and son winemakers of their family estate in Alsace: “We like the idea that wine finds a voice of its own, independent of the winemaker”.
For the 37th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series, we return to the Route des Grands Crus d’Alsace, to meet Mathieu Deiss who, together with his father, stands at #14 in the rankings. Since its foundation in 1947, in Bergheim near Ribeauvillé, Domaine Marcel Deiss has been cultivating high standards, respect for tradition, and the capacity to evolve. This is a family history where the exchange between father and son transcends simple sharing of knowledge.
Mathieu Deiss needs no invitation to pay tribute to his father, Jean-Michel, who continues to help him run the estate. Alongside his commitments at Domaine Marcel Deiss, Mathieu also devotes himself to a more personal project at Vignoble du Rêveur (The Dreamer’s Vineyard), together with his partner, Emmanuelle Milan (daughter of Henri Milan of Domaine Milan, ed.). And you truly have to be a dreamer to imagine that the coming together of heaven and earth has given birth to a divine nectar, historically dedicated to the gods, today aimed at humans instead. However, for this “manual worker who also likes to handle ideas”, abstraction has its limits, as nature is always quick to remind us.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Mathieu Deiss: More than any personal gratification, what really matters for me is the appreciation of the work that goes into every bottle, not least the work of my father and my partner. I see this as recognition for the estate rather than for me personally. I find it touching, and it inevitably makes me think of the 25 people who work alongside us.
Have you been training for long?
I grew up surrounded by tractors and wine presses, I have been immersed in it all since I was a baby, just like Obélix. Without being remotely aware of it, I have been trained by my circumstances, and I owe that to my father who gave me all the freedom I needed. I am a manual worker who also likes to handle ideas. When I started here in 2008, after completing a degree in physical chemistry, my father was beside me in the cellar to help with my first vinification. It has been a genuinely seamless transition. I never wanted to act out the father-son generational schism. Great wines are a complex affair, to do with conserving something and with breaking new ground. I like to combine the best of both worlds. There will always be people who find me either insufficiently “natural” or insufficiently conventional. I like the idea that wine finds a voice of its own, independent of the winemaker. There are aspects of vintages and of the character of every terroir that require us, the winemakers, to stand aside from the limelight. Especially in Alsace!
Who is your mentor?
My father has played a central part in my career. He has frequently proved to be right while ahead of his time. Stéphane de Renoncourt has also been a big inspiration. He has a real sensitivity for wines. Wine is not just about slavishly following traditional methods; it is also an adventure, and you have to change what isn’t working. You have to stay agile, which is not always easy in the world of wine. We might even go as far as to question the wine appellation system and ask whether it is sufficiently adaptable. I can understand that natural wine is outside the mainstream, and we have to accept that. However, some grape varieties and some methods have now passed their use-by date.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, you have to be able to play as a team and get people on board with your programme, but it’s also very solitary at times, because you have to take risks, stand on your own two feet, develop your own style, and make your own decisions. You can’t ask the team to take all that on. You can’t paint a picture with ten of you at the easel. The trickiest time is when it comes to bottling. That is when all the doubts set in.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
You can put your best efforts into a very simple terroir and that regularly produces great wines. You cannot have one without the other. The terroir is paramount, if for no other reason than it provides an essential continuity. When it comes to the winemakers, there are more disruptions, because of family transitions in particular. We want to give our terroir its own voice.
To what do you owe your success?
I was lucky to be in the right place at the right time, as Brassens put it. However, I think I owe my success to tenacity, and that goes for my father too.
Is your family proud of you?
I think so. We shouldn’t do what we do with the aim of impressing others. But when my partner, Emmanuelle Milan, and I had forged our own path with Vignoble du Rêveur, I’m pretty sure that finally convinced my father that I was capable of taking charge here.
What is your favourite colour?
I’m far too curious and fond of variety to pick out one colour. My wines reflect that. I mix white with orange, find something of interest in everything, and I operate more and more by instinct. I think that red wines have a great future in Alsace, where the changing climate will suit the expression of Pinot Noir. I very rarely open bottles of my own wine, and I always taste completely blind to avoid being influenced by labels.
Your favourite grape variety?
Many come through alright, depending on the year, while some have, quite wrongly, acquired a bad reputation in the past. What bothers me is this obsession with focusing on a grape variety. What really engages me is rummaging around amongst the old Alsatian grape varieties which have disappeared for the wrong reasons. As soon as we started to use fertilisers some grape varieties produced two times too much and we tore up the vines, just like we did with those that didn’t tolerate grafting. Societal and climate change has turned all that upside down.
Your favourite vintage?
The recent vintages have been hot vintages, but 2019, for example, doesn’t taste of heat and is a really lovely vintage. The vintages which have provided exceptional ripeness seem heavier, and so atypical for Alsace, but they have very fine ageing potential.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
My personality is quite fastidious and particular. I think that this demanding quality can be found in my wine. I am a great lover of photography, and Henri Cartier-Bresson in particular. He captured the moment but was always reflective, his work combines a sense of movement and construction, and that’s what I want to reproduce in my wines.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
I think our wines are wines that need to be shared. I never open a bottle on my own; it’s a shame for the bottle and a pointless exercise. Around a table, in company, remains the ideal, but for me, above all, these are moments for reflection. I want people to ask themselves questions and for that to generate discussion. I like wines to tell a story and for people to be stirred up.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
No, the question has never come up. That’s all to do with economic considerations and that’s not why we make wine. 40 years ago, when my father went out on a limb, no one could understand it. He was also taking an economic risk but never looked at it in those terms.
Who is your most feared competitor?
Myself. The winemaker’s number one priority is to try to avoid making too many silly mistakes. Sometimes you have to be wary of yourself and your fears, which are seldom good advisers.
And the competition that you dread the most?
Bottling the wine. That’s the stage which makes me most anxious.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
It’s pretty much all been done before. Our predecessors have already done so much. Where I have done things differently I have been inspired by what people did in the past: putting grapes at the bottom of the barrels, for example, or reintroducing maceration, which is a method I would like to bring back into fashion. It allows you to play with the structuring of the wines, to improve their ageing potential. It’s not necessarily that tangible, but it gives the wines a spine.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
Perhaps one day my children, but it has to be their choice. We have four-year-old twins who wake up to help us at harvest time, so that we finish more quickly! Life runs its course. I have come across many sad people who haven’t done what they wanted to do in life. I hope, above all, that won’t be the case for my children.
Managing Director and winemaker of Château La Conseillante in Pomerol: “A great wine can’t exist without a great terroir.”
The 36th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series takes us to Pomerol, where Marielle Cazaux, #15, has been at the helm of Château La Conseillante since 2015. Mixing the farmer’s wisdom of her upbringing with cutting-edge technical knowledge, Cazaux has brought a breath of fresh air to the prestigious Pomerol domaine. Under her reign, La Conseillante’s recent vintages have grown in quality and precision, becoming ever more refined while remaining faithful to their identity.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Marielle Cazaux: I wasn’t expecting to be in the rankings whatsoever! I was totally blown away. I heard the news when I was mid-harvest amongst the vines and all I could say was “Oh my God!”. However, I don’t see my work as something done solo, it’s very much a group endeavour with my team. If La Conseillante is where it is today, it’s thanks, in large part, to the team I have around me of people who are passionate about their work, who believe in my ideas and bring their own to the table.
Have you been training for a long time?
I have been in training since my very first internships as an agricultural engineering student, so since 2001. The first internship I carried out where I was really immersed in the world of wine was at Ridge Vineyards in Sonoma County. Afterwards, I went on to do an internship at Suduiraut in the Sauternes. When I started working in 2004, just after I graduated, I was taken on as Technical Director at Château Lezongars, in the Côtes de Bordeaux appellation. The property was 38 hectares, so actually quite big, but there were only four of us working there. I looked after the winery on my own, and the tractors too – if any of my workers were ill or on holiday, I had to look after the vines, treat any diseases, do the pruning, etc. It was a huge learning curve! I can still see myself in a tractor up at the top of a steep slope, between two rows of vines, saying to myself: “Come on, girl, you can do it!” It’s by training that you make your way up from the lowest divisions to the Premier League. With Château de Malleprat, I started playing in the professional divisions, and then Château Petit-Village (also in Pomerol, ed.) was my move into the Premier League. Now, with La Conseillante, I’m in the Champions’ League!
Who is your mentor?
My best mentor is my partner. It’s thanks to him that I ended up at La Conseillante as, when I was initially headhunted, I didn’t dare go to the interview as it was for Managing Director and not Technical Director. I’m a winemaker – I couldn’t see myself doing the sales and marketing part of the job. My husband, who’s a former rugby player, said to me, “In rugby, if you get up to the first division and it doesn’t work out, you can always go back down to the second division.”
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
In my view, a great wine can’t exist without a great terroir, so the terroir is more important. That said, you can’t make a great wine without a great team. In order for all the stars to be aligned, you need a great terroir, a good captain, who surrounds themselves with an excellent team, and supportive owners – for us, it’s the Nicolas family (owners of La Conseillante, ed.) – who believe in the team’s ambitions and give them the means to do things well.
To whom do you owe your success?
I think I owe my success to the wonderful childhood I had in the Landes. If, today, I’m blessed with a good nose and a taste for the finer things in life, it’s because I had a mother who was a fabulous cook and a father with an exceptional nose, who gave me a taste for wine. They both taught me to pay attention to everything I smelt and ate. You can’t be a great winemaker if you don’t pay attention to smells and to tastes, and if you don’t have a clear idea of what you like when you make wine. You need to have been lucky enough to have tasted lots of wines and to know what you like and what you don’t like.
Are your parents proud of you?
Yes, they are proud. However, I think my parents would be happy regardless of what I do, as long as I have a roof over my head and I’m content! They’re very down-to-earth, pragmatic people.
Who is your best sponsor?
Let me show you the label on my jacket. Can you see the little logo? I have a boss who adores clothes and who makes us all sorts of sweatshirts, polos, jackets, etc., all of which are lovely. My best sponsor is definitely my boss!
What is your favourite colour?
You can see my favourite colour right behind me – the blue of a cloudless sky, which gives you a feeling both of the vastness of the world and of deep contentment.
Your favourite grape variety?
It would be impossible for me to choose anything other than Merlot, even if I adore the majestic Syrahs of the Côte-Rôtie. A great Merlot produced on our Pomerol terroirs is just magic. It’s good young, then it’s good at 10 years old, at 15 years old, because it starts to take on truffle aromas. In the right environment, it is a magical grape variety, and its aromatic expressions are so wonderfully diverse.
Your favourite vintage?
Today, I’m going to choose a vintage that I didn’t make myself. I’ve only been at the estate for eight years and you have to wait at least 10 to 12 years for a Conseillante to be truly great. My favourite vintage is 2005. It’s a very emotive wine, with its many flavours, its complexity, its smoothness, its length, its finesse. It is, quite simply, a magnificent wine.
If your wine was a person, who would it look like?
I would say Miles Davis. In his music, there’s always the most wonderful smoothness and precision. His pieces are also utterly enchanting, exhilarating, and very long. I hope that the wines that we produce at La Conseillante today have that same balance, length, smoothness, and perfection, because it is perfection that we are constantly seeking.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wines?
If you only have one bottle – a 10- or 12-year-old Conseillante, for example – it’s best to taste it with just one other person so that you can both really get the most out of it. My husband and I have already tried tasting a bottle with six of us there. It is somewhat frustrating, as you can’t make out all the different aromas in all their depth with just one glass. Many people ask me for food pairings with La Conseillante and I would say that you need something simple, so that the dish doesn’t hide the wine’s aromas. You can start the bottle before the meal as an apéritif, with a little bit of pata negra ham, and then take the bottle with you to the table to accompany a very simple dish.
With whom?
With someone you love, whether it’s your partner, your parents, or your best friend. The best bottles are always those that are shared with the people that you love.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wines?
No… in fact, yes, I have a magic potion, just like Asterix, that I drink every morning during the harvest to stay on top form. I’ll give you the recipe – it’s fantastic! You need to put some water, fresh grated ginger, grated turmeric, the juice of half a lemon and a bit of pepper into a bottle and keep it in the fridge to infuse overnight; in the morning, you filter it. For wine, however, there’s no need to enhance it chemically. Quite the opposite, in fact, the movement over the last few years has been towards “less is more”, so no chemical inputs, less use of wood. We use indigenous lactic bacteria at La Conseillante: I take my bacteria from a particular parcel and I use them to make a fermentation starter for the following year. We don’t use any sulphur in our winemaking process, or only the barest minimum.
Who is your most feared opponent?
I have two opponents. Well, journalists aren’t really opponents but, for me, they cause a lot of anxiety with the scores that they publish for each vintage. It is a real source of stress for me, rather like for a designer who’s presenting his new collection on the runway. Something that is even more unpredictable and over a much longer period of time is the weather, which is my number one worry. From 1st April to 15th October, I have to live with the weather and its constraints. It’s not an opponent as such, as I can’t fight against it, but it is a form of adversity.
What are you proudest of?
First of all, I’m proud of having built the team that I have now at La Conseillante. Between the moment I arrived and today, it has changed considerably: some members have retired; others have changed paths. Today, however, I have managed to bring together an incredibly close-knit group of people that I like to call my “dream team”. Everyone is willing to work and not a single person complains. When we get a good rating for a wine, everyone rejoices. We eat meals together; we are a real team with a solid core, and I am very proud of that. It’s also thanks to the Nicolas family that I have been able to build this team up. Working for them is another great source of pride.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the winery?
If I give it to you, I’ll be betraying my deepest secrets… No, I’m just joking. I’ll give you something that I started using this year, which is really at the forefront of innovation, something quite mind-blowing, which comes from the world of neuroscience. We use electrodes, planted into the vine, to measure electric flows. We have a form of artificial intelligence that transforms the data into information that tells us if the plant is being attacked by mildew or if it is in hydric stress; it can even tell us if the grapes are mature. We tested the tool to see if, when the plant was telling us that it was in hydric stress, the results correlated with those of our traditional tools. We were astonished to find that it was completely accurate. It can also measure the berry sugar accumulation just by using these electric flows. Once again, the results recorded were completely accurate compared to the other tests that we carried out. All this means that the plant is using its own form of communication. Here at La Conseillante, we always thought that was the case! We speak to our vines, saying “good morning” to them at the start of the day and “goodbye” at night. In any case, this is the most innovative tactic that I have been able to test this year. In the winery, on the other hand, I think you have to stay very basic and return to traditional methods.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
I’m thinking of people who head up less prestigious domaines, who would so deserve this honour. I have lots of friends who make exceptional wines in the Côtes de Bordeaux, Côtes de Blaye, and Médoc appellations, who don’t get any media attention. So, go out there, go and do a ranking of France’s top 50 winemakers excluding Grands Crus and big domaines! Thinking back, when I was heading up lesser-known châteaux, like Lezongars and Malleprat, we made superb wines. I put in just as much energy and passion to my work then as I do now at La Conseillante. I’m thinking of all those winemakers who do a remarkable job, including my friends the Lavauds at Domaine Les Carmels or the Julliots at Domaines SKJ in Listrac.
The 35th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series finds us once more in Champagne to meet Vincent Chaperon, #16 of France’s 50 best winemakers and cellar master of the emblematic champagne house: “I have quite an extreme nature”.
With his slender and athletic physique, preppy haircut, sharp gaze framed by thick-rimmed eyeglasses, and perfect diction, Vincent Chaperon is the kind of person one could easily find annoying, as he seems to have been unfairly graced with every enviable quality. But digging deeper, one might also sense a darker part, an urgency, and an eagerness to do well that is at odds with the hazardous conditions of a career that is at the mercy of its environment. Yet it is this tension, this fear of failure, that has crowned the young cellar master with success after success, where others might have settled for safety. “My time at Dom Pérignon has been something of a Bildungsroman: I was plucked straight out of school by my predecessor, Philippe Coulon (who passed in June 2023, ed.), and then raised in the maison” he recalls. “Despite my Bordeaux upbringing, to which I remain very attached, my adult life took shape in Champagne.”
Following a brief trip abroad, he was named oenologist in 2000, forming a virtually symbiotic duo with his predecessor Richard Geoffroy. “I arrived here with many expectations and ambitions, I wanted to prove something, and I had the chance to be inspired by people whom I loved very much, such as Richard, who helped me make the right decisions at times when I was growing impatient.”
This restraint bore its fruits: in 2017, the maison announced that he would be appointed cellar master the following year. “That day, I walked down the same hallways I always did, but everything had a different dimension, I looked back at the path that brought me here. It was an incredibly emotional moment.”
For the past five years, Vincent Chaperon has followed his ambition to fully embrace his role, without ever sacrificing its creative and sensitive dimensions on the altar of the operational. Eternally dissatisfied, he nevertheless describes himself as “profoundly happy”.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Vincent Chaperon: “I’m overwhelmingly happy and grateful to be where I am today. There is something exciting about this acknowledgement, that I really enjoy, because I am a fierce competitor. My friends call me “champion” because I’m always up for a challenge!
Have you been training for long?
Yes, for a very long time, at times excessively. I’ve always been conscientious and engaged. It’s a gauge for me: in moments of doubt, when my motivation is low, when I question myself. I have a real thirst for life, for this career, for people.
Who is your mentor?
Three people have guided my career. Firstly, my paternal grandfather, who was an admiral in the marine, on the Libourne side of my family. He passed on to me his passion for wine, indirectly and subtly. Later, Philippe Coulon and Richard Geoffroy, at Dom Pérignon. I was also lucky to meet Jeff Koons, who, in just a few hours, made me realise things about my career that resonated with me, particularly its eminently artistic dimension. More recently, I crossed paths with the chef Massimiliano Alajmo: we understood each other right from the start. These are people who open doors.
Is wine a team sport?
Totally. With a maison the size of Dom Pérignon, you need to know how to share, which is both a blessing and a curse. Having a common vision implies having a close-knit team for the long run, because you need to understand each other beyond words, through emotions, through memories.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
Both. I consider a “fine wine” to be first and foremost the story of an encounter between Nature and Man – which I don’t see as being in opposition, as long as humans work in harmony with their surroundings and strive to enhance Nature’s fruits. One must choose a place and attempt to give a part of oneself in return.
To what do you owe your success?
To this thirst I mentioned earlier. I have quite an extreme nature, unpredictable, I like to see things through and to do so in a radical fashion. I lost my brother early in life, and my thirst for life is unquenchable. Various encounters I made were also decisive, and one must put their faith in providence. I truly believe things happen for a reason. The people you meet have an impact on your path in life.
Is your family proud of you?
They are proud of who I am. I have often tried to compartmentalise, to find the right balance, but I’m realising that if I want to grow as a person, whether on a personal or a professional level, I need to be both mind and body. This is something that gives me a lot of thought. We are living in a very rational world, which thinks intelligently, through concepts, but we sometimes forget we are also bodies. One must have a holistic approach to better understand one’s heritage.
Your favourite colour?
Navy blue. Beyond being my favourite colour to wear, it says something about me: both my grandfathers were sailors, one admiral and the other a naval commissioner, and I think I am a sailor myself. In a way, this is my heritage.
Your favourite wine variety?
Pinot Noir, which I discovered through Dom Pérignon. It fascinates me. I love its tension, its versatility, its elusiveness, its fragility, it says a lot about us. And I say this as a Merlot man, which is not a contradiction!
Your favourite vintage?
2022 – I’m very attached to it, and had a very strong emotional connection with this vintage. Since 2018, I have always gone further, to affirm myself, to chart my own course, and this is what is conveyed in this vintage.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It would be the person who is enjoying it. Wine is the mirror of people, and what I am seeking is for people to have a connection with our wines.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
No. When I arrived, at 23 years old, it was like arriving at the town hall and seeing the motto “Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité” (“Liberty, Equality, Fraternity”, the French motto, ed.). At Dom Pérignon, simple and natural winemaking was the house philosophy. It was quite visionary. There has always been a willingness to be transparent, to not overuse oak. There had been some in the 1960s, but when we started to work with stainless steel, everything changed. We have strived to build balance and complexity through the fruit, the blend, and time – these are the three essential components.
Who is your strongest competition?
Me. This taming of the self, this quest for knowledge, what our calling is, and wondering where we bring the most to the world.
Which competition do you dread the most?
Marathons. I have run three to this day, and notice that, although I can go the distance, I am still an impulsive person. I need to learn to endure waiting over time. My objective for next year is the New York marathon, and I am going to train to experience it fully.
What is your greatest trophy?
My family, and my role as cellar master for Dom Pérignon, which is a reward rather than a trophy, because it is not something I display.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
I have made many changes thanks to my research, such as making creative decisions early in the process. This means having very strong cultural and emotional biases for what is going to go into each vintage. I want to blend technique and emotions to give things direction from the start. This requires making the body and intuition priorities, through observation, tasting, etc.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
We are not a family-run maison, and yet, we think of things over the long term, with long-lasting mentorships, in ways that are similar to family bonds. There may not be a set candidate today, but there are many people that I am watching over and accompanying along their career path. I truly believe in working in pairs, in complementary duos. Ideally, my successor would be a disciple in the Eastern sense of the word, someone who is here for the long run, who can prove themselves. At Dom Pérignon, one must approach this holistically: right brain, left brain, concrete and conceptual, with true emotional intelligence. In the end, I would want it to be a good person.