Winemaker of this revered estate in Pommard: “I’m a bit of a junkyard dog!”.
The 21st interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series finds us on our third visit to Burgundy to meet Paul Zinetti, #30. Burgundian by birth, he joined Domaine du Comte Armand, among the most iconic Côte-d’Or estates, in 2010, and took over the winemaking reins from Benjamin Leroux in 2014. Today he cultivates nine hectares of vines in Pommard, where the estate is based, together with vineyard plots in Volnay and Auxey-Duresses.
Paul Zinetti is forthright and unconcerned with social niceties. As a manager who is not an owner – a rarity in Burgundy – he laughingly admits to his lack of formal qualifications, being neither an oenologist nor even the holder of a technical diploma. “I’m a bit of a junkyard dog!”, declares the forty-year-old in a deliberately provocative manner. Yet, you can feel his extraordinary sensitivity, his capacity to observe and interpret a terroir whose nature changes with the passing years, which allows him to produce wines of exceptional finesse from every vintage.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Paul Zinetti: It makes me happy, but I will be humble about it as I have never set much store by awards.
Have you been training for long?
Since I was 18. I spent five years in Languedoc, then I came back up to Mâconnais, before landing in Côte-d’Or.
Who is your mentor?
Dominique Lafon, in Mersault, and his brother Bruno in Languedoc. I have built up my know-how by learning from a number of winemakers, but those are the two who have really inspired me.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, I’m a bit like the captain of the ship, and my team follows me.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
Both of them. I depend on the terroir, but I try to give it the best possible interpretation through my wines. Terroir and winemaker must go hand in hand. Great terroirs give you an advantage, but you have to know how to handle them, how to tame them. You will never be able to make great wines from poor terroir, although I appreciate that global warming means you can make good wines pretty much everywhere.
To what do you owe your success?
To myself.
Is your family proud of you?
A little bit, I think. They are happy rather than proud. These are things that remain unspoken.
Your favourite colour?
Red for wine, otherwise green.
Your favourite grape variety?
Pinot Noir, which is sensitive and refined.
Your favourite wine?
Le Grand Rouge from Revelette, for sentimental reasons.
Your favourite vintage?
2015, which I believe will turn out to be a great vintage.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It would be a Scorpio, which is my astrological sign. With my wines it’s a case of “all or nothing”, as they say. They are full-on wines.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
Among friends.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
Personally never, but I did adulterate my wine when I was young. That said, red wine is an excellent stimulant. We should remember that they used to drink red wine on the Tour de France back in the 1920s.
Who is your strongest competition?
Myself, first and foremost.
Which competition do you dread the most?
The seasons of pruning and harvesting, namely spring and summer.
What is your greatest trophy?
My children.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
Constant observation and questioning everything. What was true five years ago is by no means necessarily true today.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
Raphaële Tinoco, a young woman already on our estate team, who I hope will take over one day.
Fifth-generation winemaker of this renowned family estate: “My first internship supervisor was Aubert de Villaine, of Domaine Romanée-Conti”
For the 16th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series we head south down the Rhône Valley to one of its finest appellations, Châteauneuf du Pape, where we meet César Perrin, #35. Vintage after vintage he and his family devote themselves to their labours with total commitment.
An Eden in the Rhône Valley, surrounded by hills, vines, and olive trees, Château de Beaucastel is widely recognised as one of the most inspiring estates in Châteauneuf du Pape. While its origins date back to the 16th century, it was in the early 1900s that Pierre Perrin took it over. His son Jacques proved to be a true master of the winemaking craft, capable of taming the wilfulness of Grenache, while his innovative spirit led to the estate’s early adoption of biodynamic viticulture at the start of the 1970s. Today César is part of the fifth generation to carry the torch, alongside eight other members of his family, made up of his parents, uncles, brothers, and cousins. Through each successive vintage we have found ourselves utterly enchanted by the supple grace of their reds, perfectly balanced between the intensity of the fruit, the smoothness of the tannins, and an aromatic complexity which just keeps on growing deeper.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
César Perrin: I don’t think of myself as a champion. We are, more than anything, champions for our generation, continuing the achievements of our parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents before us. We have to be champions in preserving and passing on our inheritance, for we are all just passing through. It is always gratifying to know that our wines are tasted all around the world.
Have you been training for long?
Winemaking is a vocation, so we all devote a great deal of time to it, much to the detriment of our families. We train every day from a very young age. Whether in the cellar, among all the smells, or playing Le Nez du Vin and trying to recognise the fragrances, it is a little like The Drops of God. Already with my daughters, aged three and two, we taste different fruits, such as unripe cherries.
Who is your mentor?
I would say my father, who initiated us. Apart from him it would have to be my first internship supervisor, Aubert de Villaine, in 2008. He told me something that has always stuck with me: “Here at Romanée-Conti, no matter what your task is, whether it takes you an hour, or a day, or a month, you have to do it perfectly.” Ever since, I have tried to do my best on a daily basis.
Is wine a team sport?
It is for me, but most importantly wine is made to be shared and is, in that respect, a team sport. Wine is, above all, a moment for sharing, a shared emotion. You can go fast on your own, but together you go further.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
A great wine requires four elements: the terroir, the vine selected for planting, the climate that supports it, and the man who tends that vine. It is a combination of the four.
To what do you owe your success?
To my grandfather Jacques and my grandmother Marguerite, who turned Beaucastel into a jewel. They were pioneers, going organic in the 1950s and biodynamic in the 1970s. In rejecting the incursions of chemistry they were true visionaries.
Is your family proud of you?
I hope so. In any case, that is the great benefit of working as a family: we are very candid with each other and there is a real honesty between us. That only adds to the pressure and makes it even more imperative that we ensure our family can be proud to represent our wines.
Who is your biggest supporter?
Château de Beaucastel Châteauneuf-du-Pape Hommage à Jacques Perrin, which is our finest wine.
Your favourite colour?
Red.
Your favourite grape variety?
Mourvèdre. My grandfather was very fond of it. The grape variety was introduced to Beaucastel in the early 1930s. My grandfather went to school with Lucien Peyraud of Domaine Tempier, which is still, in my view, the greatest of the Bandols. I have noticed that the great Bandol wines were always made in the northernmost part of that appellation, while here in Châteauneuf we are at the northern boundary of our appellation. That explains why we brought Mourvèdre, which is an archetypal Bandol grape variety, to our own terroirs.
Your favourite wine?
Our whites. We have relatively very few of them, only eight to ten per cent of our production. But our Roussanne Vieilles Vignes is my favourite.
Your favourite vintage?
My first, 2012.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It would be a countryman.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
With friends.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
No, quite the opposite, we have to preserve the distinctive quality of each vintage, and take what nature gives us. Nature is not always congenial, but it is what it is.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
Everything has a price, apart from family. So the question will never arise, since we want to pass it on forever.
Who is your strongest competition?
The weather.
Which competition do you dread the most?
Pruning the vines, which is such a key moment in their development.
What is your greatest trophy?
My grandmother’s pride. When she made family meals, she used to say to us: “When I am gone there is a case of wines with vintages made by me and your grandfather. I want you to open it together.” They were old magnums from 1950 and the family drank them together. It was a uniquely special experience.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
That goes back to my grandparents, with their decision to reject chemical products after the war. That has allowed us to maintain a unique ecosystem, with soils that have never been touched by chemicals.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
A member of the Perrin family.
Owner and winemaker of her iconic family estate in Condrieu: “A wine is like its maker”.
The 15th in Le Figaro Vin’s series finds us in the northern part of the Rhône Valley where Christine Vernay, #36, has made her distinctive mark in the 25 years since she took over from her father, Georges Vernay.
From its home in Condrieu, Domaine Georges Vernay’s 24 hectares of vines, mainly comprised of Syrah and Viognier, extend over steep, precipitous terroirs. Georges Vernay began to develop the estate in 1953, starting out with 1.5 hectares of vines classified as AOC Condrieu Coteau de Vernon. A passionate defender of the appellation, he played a major part in its preservation.
As the third-generation owner of the family property, Christine Vernay, joined in 2020 by her daughter Emma Amsellem, maintains the family’s knowledge and expertise. Today they cultivate 10 hectares of vines classified as AOC Condrieu, including three hectares of old vines which produce the prestigious Le Coteau de Vernon and Les Chaillées de l’Enfer, wines which epitomise the Viognier grape variety in Condrieu. They also grow six hectares of vines classified as Côte-Rôtie, two hectares as Saint-Joseph, and six hectares as IGP Syrah and Viognier.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Christine Vernay: A champion? I have never thought about it in those terms. It surprises me, but I am delighted by it.
Have you been training for long?
It has been a real marathon…nearly 30 years now.
Who is your mentor?
There have been quite a few. In the first place my family, then numerous encounters in the world of wine with men and women who have inspired me.
Is wine a team sport?
Of course. How could anyone think otherwise. Wine starts its life on the vine and our hillsides require so much attention that you need a strong team to manage successfully. Everyone plays their part. When the grapes reach the cellar I have a smaller team around me, it’s more intimate, I work more on my own, and I engage in a real one-to-one conversation with my wines.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
Without question, the terroir. For me the terroir is a wonderful confluence of place, vine, and winemaker. You then have the freedom of interpretation to make a great wine.
To what do you owe your success?
For a winemaker the definition of success changes every year. My awareness of its transient nature stimulates and strengthens me. I believe that desire, pleasure, doubts, convictions, and, above all, commitment to inherited values are all key to progress and success.
Is your family proud of you?
I hope so!
Who is your biggest supporter?
I don’t have any.
Your favourite colour?
Red – the red of Maison Rouge.
Your favourite wine?
My heart swings between Coteau de Vernon and Maison Rouge.
Your favourite vintage?
1997, my first vintage.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It would be me. I often find that a wine is like its maker.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
My favourite circumstances for tasting it are when you are tuned in to the sensations that it can bring you.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
Our reciprocal energies are enough in themselves.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
I am not prepared to sell it.
Who is your strongest competition?
Nature, which you have to contend with all the time.
Which competition do you dread the most?
At the beginning of the harvest, when you are walking through the vines, tasting the grapes, keeping a watchful eye on the earth and the sky, and deciding when to press start, you experience a powerful adrenaline rush. I dread it, but I love it.
What is your greatest trophy?
The smile and serenity of my father watching me be a winemaker.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
Commitment to a way of working that respects the environment and having the flexibility to be as close as possible to the vines, the grapes, and the wine, contingent on the demands of nature, the vintage, the weather…
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
My daughter!
Winemaker and Technical Director of the estate: “You have to give your soul to the wine”
The 14th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series brings us back to Burgundy where Guillaume Marko, #37, creates exquisite wines at Domaine du Cellier aux Moines in the Côte Chalonnaise.
Situated on a hillside above Givry, the estate was founded circa 1130 by the Cistercian monks of La Ferté Abbey. Nearly 900 years later it stands as a witness to the history of Burgundian viticulture. The estate cultivates plots in some of the finest appellations in Burgundy, producing the following wines: Givry Premier Cru Clos du Cellier aux Moines, Mercurey les Margotons, Puligny-Montrachet Premier Cru Les Pucelles, Chassagne-Montrachet Premier Cru Les Chaumées, and Santenay Premier Cru Beauregard.
Since they took over the estate in 2004, Philippe and Christine Pascal have dedicated themselves to making Domaine du Cellier aux Moines one of the key benchmarks for Givry. Here, Cellar Master Guillaume Marko shares his experience as a winemaker.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Guillaume Marko: It doesn’t mean a great deal, to be quite honest… What makes me happy is when a taster enjoys drinking my wine and is moved by it.
Have you been training for long?
For 15 years. And I learn something new every day.
Who is your mentor?
Mother Nature – she dictates the tempo. And, of course, my wife who is very patient…
Is wine a team sport?
Not everywhere, but it is with us. And it is so much better that way!
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
The terroir, obviously, although the quality of the vines is of comparable importance. Without the right massal selection you will never get great wine. In a sense the winemaker is the conductor who listens to both these elements and sublimates them.
To what do you owe your success?
To the entire team, present and past, who work with such precision, day after day.
Is your family proud of you?
I hope so.
Your favourite colour?
Red.
The king of grape varieties?
Pinot Noir, obviously!
Your favourite wine?
Clos du Cellier aux Moines Les Dessus Givry Premier Cru.
Your favourite vintage?
2019.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It would certainly be me.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
You need to remember to open it in advance and then taste it over a meal with friends and family.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
Not for one moment.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
Make me an offer…only joking!
Who is your strongest competition?
Hailstorms.
Which competitions do you dread the most?
The battle against mildew in years of high rainfall.
What is your greatest trophy?
This one…of course!
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
Rediscovering how to listen, how to let go, and let nature take its course.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
It could be any winemaker, provided that he or she gives their soul to the wine.
Owner of Domaine Belargus: “I have a bit of a PSG syndrome”.
Figaro Vin’s 39th top French winemaker, Ivan Massonnat creates sumptuous wines on Savennières’ exceptional terroir.
In the Loire valley, on one of Anjou noir’s finest terroirs, Ivan Massonnat is fulfilling his long-lasting dream of producing excellent Chenins from Savennières. At the Belargus estate, born in 2018 with the purchase of the Pithon-Paillé estate, 24 hectares of vines are biodynamically grown in a parcel-based approach inspired by the Burgundian “climates”. Named in tribute to the rare cuvée once made by Jo Pithon – the “Belargus des Treilles” – Belargus is also the name of a small blue butterfly that’s exceedingly rare at this latitude but can be found on the Coteau des Treilles terroir.
Le Figaro Vin. – How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Ivan Massonnat. – I don’t consider myself to be a champion. One part of me feels like a wine amateur that’s made it and is living the dream, the other like a producer that makes his wine and takes decisions.
Have you been training for long?
Yes, since my childhood, without even realising it. My passion for vines stems from my grandfather’s vines, and I’ve trained by being in contact with real champions, of the Burgundian kind.
Who is your coach?
Jo Pithon, who’s been by my side every day throughout this adventure, with 40 vintages under his belt. I have a few other mentors, such as Thibault Liger-Belair and Philippe Pacalet in Burgundy. It’s by their side that I learnt to trust myself. There’s Pierre Amoreau from Château Le Puy, who taught me a lot. Among those who inspire me, there’s also Anselme Selosse. His approach goes far beyond that of a winemaker, he’s a true philosopher. At 45 years old, I completely changed my life, shifting towards a career I knew to be difficult. When I see a man like him, I know I’ve done the right thing.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, definitely. I spend my time saying so. There are some people who are often cast aside, especially in the vineyard, but on my estate, it’s the opposite. You need great talent, with each individual excelling in their specialty. The members of my team are sharp and well-suited to their roles. I have the PSG syndrome; I don’t want people working in silos. If everyone isn’t aware of the whole, we cannot accomplish anything. Good ideas sometimes come from across the playing field. For me, the concept of a rugby team is the best model there is.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
I have a vision of making wine with a sense of place, and not all places are created equal. That being said, a good-for-nothing from the finest place will not make a great wine! I don’t believe that a winemaker is a magician.
To what or to who do you owe your success?
To all those who believed in me, my closest circle, who didn’t view my project as a pipe dream. There are also those who told my story, as well as the clients. No project can bring people together the way wine does. Each link in the chain has been important. I never imagined things would happen so fast, and the seeds would take root.
Is your family proud of you?
Yes, and very happy for me. My family has made a lot of sacrifices, but it was worth it in the end.
Your favourite colour?
I started with reds, but today I like whites just as much.
The king of grape varieties?
Chenin! It has a lot of character and concentrates a lot of different traits.
Your favourite wine?
The Coteau des Treilles, which I just call Les Treilles.
Your favourite vintage?
Probably 1989, for the reds. It’s the one I’ve had the most opportunities to enjoy.
If your wine were a person, who would they be?
Me. A profound part of a winemaker’s personality finds its way into the wine they make.
What’s the best way to enjoy it?
In good company.
Have you already thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
No.
If you had to put a price on your estate, what would it be?
I’m not planning to. This is a 100-year project, and I don’t know what value it will have in a century’s time!
Who is your strongest competition in Anjou?
I don’t view competition that way, nor do I consider my neighbours as opponents. What impresses me is team play. My adversary could be the beer or alcohol-free drinks industries. When I see people with a waning interest in wine, I feel like we’ve missed the boat somewhere along the line.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
My most innovative idea in the region was to break the glass ceiling. What has defined Belargus is the conviction that this region produces some of France’s finest white wines and that they shouldn’t be sold at a discount. It was a risk, but in line with what I was doing. Les Treilles has been the proof of this: a 100 euro-wine from Anjou. This was completely unheard of.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
I don’t know yet. I don’t want to impose this on my children. Nevertheless, one thing is certain: I will not last forever. What will remain is the terroir. My only wish is that my successor be passionate.
Owner and winemaker of Château La Calisse: “You have to be tuned in to your terroir”.
The 11th in Le Figaro Vin’s series brings us back to Provence where Patricia Ortelli, #40, creates her exquisite organic wines. Here she shares her vision and her deep love for her vocation, which she has pursued for the last 30 years. 
A pioneer of organic viticulture in Provence, Patricia Ortelli works her 12 hectares of vines with passion and respect for the environment, entirely eschewing weedkillers and insecticides. Château La Calisse benefits from an exceptional location, with its terroir of stony limestone soil where the vines flourish at an altitude of 500 metres, which protects them from sun damage. This terroir produces wines of extraordinary vivacity, ranging from a delicate white to a refined red by way of the palest of rosés.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Patricia Ortelli: It gives me a feeling of intense happiness, in the light of all the love that, to this very day, I have devoted to my wines.
Have you been training for long?
Only for 30 years! It began when I raised my hand at an auction and ended up owning an abandoned vineyard. We had to start from scratch, completely replanting and rebuilding, levelling the ground and constructing the cellar. That was when I chose to go organic, becoming a trailblazer here in Provence. We started out on land that had never been touched by chemicals.
Who is your mentor?
My oenology professor, who was a big help, and very enthusiastic about this terroir, in the northern part of Provence. This was at a time when investors were focused on the south, in order to be close to the sea, whereas here we are 500 metres above sea-level.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, one hundred per cent. In my teams we are all on equal terms and we face the day’s challenges together, especially at harvest. One of the joys of this job is that you never know what to expect. You have to stay on your toes. Everyone in my team wants to do their best.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
For me it’s the terroir, and it is important that the winemaker understands that his task is to respect what his terroir offers. That is my definition of a great winemaker. You have to choose the right path for the wine to express its full aromatic potential, and you have to be tuned in to your terroir to find the best approach.
To what do you owe your success?
To Nature with a capital “N”.
Is your family proud of you?
I am sure they are. They have all been involved in the project and are particularly pleased with the results.
Your favourite colour?
I produce a third of each colour, so I would say a blend of all three. There is a fascination in the specific skills and ways of working required by each of them. My first grapes were white, which went against the prevailing trend. As for the rosé, it is an extremely tricky wine to make, which gives you a great deal of joy when you get it right. Its finesse is remarkable.
The king of grape varieties?
I really think that there is an essential grape variety for each wine. For the whites that is Rolle, for the rosé, Grenache – it is the most suited to our high terroirs – and, for the reds, Syrah and Cabernet Sauvignon. Each grape variety has its own personality, its own challenges, they all have something about them, and you have to discover what makes each of them tick.
Your favourite wine?
The Cuvée Étoiles, but they all bring me a different pleasure. That can be when I am making them or when they are fully realised, just like with a work of art.
Your favourite vintage?
The one which provides the depth, fullness, and freshness that I look for. 2010 for example. Every vintage has a unique character which informs and shapes our wines. But it is certainly the case that the best years are those that are free from disease and frost.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It is the image of what nature has given us.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
In large glasses, at the right temperature, obviously. But also, ideally, in circumstances conducive to producing a particular pleasure, a sense of joy.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
No product can make a bad grape better. From the moment you harvest fully ripened grapes by hand, through the night, and your grapes are of the finest quality, there is nothing to be gained by tampering with them. The only measures we take are temperature regulation and combinations from different plots, using micro-vinifications, which enable us to balance our wines through blending.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
There is significant pressure around us, but my estate is priceless. I could never sell it because I am entirely at one with it.
Who is your strongest competition in Provence?
The most formidable competition would be to find myself surrounded by a race to the bottom, considering the terroirs we have in our region. These days Provence has established a reputation for high-quality wine, and we have to maintain it.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
They are too many to count, all connected to my understanding of vines and wine. I use methods that are unique to me, but one of them underpins everything: paying attention. You have to pay careful attention to every aspect of winemaking; you can never relax. I try, every day, to see and understand my vines.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
My son and my grandchildren.
Owner and winemaker, in tandem with his sister Marie, of their family estate in Alsace: “We run on adrenaline”.
For the tenth interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series we pay our third visit to Alsace to meet Jean-Paul Zusslin, #41. He and his sister Marie work hand-in-hand with nature to create their great Alsace wines at Domaine Valentin Zusslin, founded in the late seventeenth century, at Orschwir, between Colmar and Mulhouse. The two siblings, 13th generation of a family of winemakers, work 13.5 hectares of vines, made up of nine grape varieties (Auxerrois, Chardonnay, Chasselas, Gewurztraminer, Muscat, Pinots Noir and Gris, Riesling, and Sylvaner). The estate’s three select terroirs, on the slopes of Bollenberg, Clos Liebenberg, and Grand Cru Pfingstberg, have been cultivated biodynamically since 1997, and produce exquisite, exciting, and elegant Alsace wines.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Jean-Paul Zusslin: I am very happy with what we have been able to achieve since my sister and I joined forces on the family estate in 2000. The estate’s reputation has grown, and we make wholesome wines which are true to us and our environment.
Have you been training for long?
Since forever, I think. Vines, wines, wine-lovers, and restaurants have all been part of my daily life from a very young age, and I never tire of them!
Who is your mentor?
My partner, my children, my sister, my mother, all my kindred winemakers. Nature, too, is a good guide when you pay it proper attention.
Is wine a team sport?
You need plenty of team-mates and have to be in good shape to make a good wine. It is important to me that everyone should work well together, start the day with a smile, be generous-spirited, and want to work hard and conscientiously. That said, I am not hugely competitive! I am a big fan of live shows and I see us more as a theatre company with me as the director. The spectators are the tasters, the actors are the vines and our team, while the playwright who guides us is nature. We try to interpret nature as faithfully as possible.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
To make a good wine you have to be a good winemaker, but to make a great one you have to understand its terroir, its environment. That comes from experience, accumulated through successive vintages, from observation, from challenging yourself, and from humility.
To what do you owe your success?
To my family, to my partnership with my sister, to doing what I love, and to my perseverance. When I joined the family estate in 2000 my parents and grandparents gave me the freedom to experiment and do what I wanted, especially in the cellar. They gave me the same freedom in the vineyard, where I have experimented with herbal treatments, biodynamic sprays, the introduction of nesting-boxes…
Is your family proud of you?
Yes, I think they are, I certainly hope so! I am equally appreciative of everyone’s contribution.
Who is your biggest supporter?
My mother, but without a trace of objectivity!
Your favourite colour?
White in the morning, bubbles at midday, deep yellow for afternoon tea, and red in the evening.
The king of grape varieties?
It’s hard to say, to choose is to go without! I love all the wines that I make. It’s like asking me which is my favourite child. I love both of them unconditionally. That said, I am very partial to Riesling, for its multiple dimensions, its freshness, and its versatility in matching with food.
Your favourite wine?
I am very fond of Clos Liebenberg, it’s a unique spot, a haven of biodiversity where I love to spend time, and it produces magnificent still and sparkling wines.
Your favourite vintage?
I would go for 2015, the last vintage with my father. Each year brings a new experience, a new encounter. For every vintage we spring into action, give it everything we’ve got, and the fruits of our labour are there in the bottle. Every wine has a story to tell and reminds us of some climatic or some personal event.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
I hope it is like me, on a good day! But it is also like our landscape through the passing seasons.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
Wine is a social bond, a product that we share, therefore it has to be in good company, over a meal or in the living room.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
Yes, all the time. I try to stimulate both vine and wine with willpower and with attentive, loving care. I think it is important that both vine and wine know what we expect from them, what our intentions are. We have to give heart and soul for them, always be there for them, and stay tuned in. My vinifications are very minimalist and natural but require careful attention. As for my personal stimulants of choice, they are wine, in moderation I like to think, positive energy, and strong coffee…
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
I have never considered that question. For 13 generations now my family has been making wine and looking after a bit of land. I would be very happy if I could pass that on to my children or to my sister’s children. It will be their choice, with no pressure from me. In any case, that’s for the future. I am not about to go anywhere.
Who is your strongest competition in Alsace?
No one. Instead, I see my winemaking colleagues as a source of inspiration. Everyone has their own style. When I’m at home I almost exclusively taste wines that are not my own. I try to understand what the winemaker sought to express and to discover what makes them tick. Faced with climate change we are going to have to form a collective front against numerous challenges, hence all the more reason to get on well.
Which competitions do you dread the most?
The harvest. We run on adrenaline. There are lots of team-mates to manage, you have to bring home the wines, and the days are long. By comparison the Mont Blanc ultra marathon is a walk in the park!
What is your greatest trophy?
When you start the day among the vines and you see a hare, a pheasant, a tit has come to say hello. Or perhaps when my children tell me “That’s really good!”. And when our customers tell me that my wine does them good.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
From the moment I came to the estate in 2000 I have been passionate about the natural cultivation of vines, observing and classifying the plants and small animals and insects that live in the vineyard. The estate had already been converted to biodynamic viticulture in 1997, on the initiative of my father, Jean-Marie Zusslin. I found that fascinating and delved deeply into alternative methods, especially the use of herbs. I acquired a lot of knowledge in this field about plants that produce essential oils. I have tried out different methods of extraction (infusion, decoction, and maceration) and potentisation. Currently I macerate the plants in alcohol to extract more of their essential elements. It’s an ongoing experiment, but the results so far are encouraging. The idea is also to become self-sufficient in caring for our vines, to strengthen them without stressing them.
In the cellar, for a number of years now, I have passed some fermenting wines over marcs from our great reds. That produces greater flavour, fewer tannins, and an unbelievable drinkability. We have called this wine Ophrys, after the orchids which grow on the sheltered part of Bollenberg hill.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
I hope it will be my children, or my sister’s children. But only if they choose this freely and because they are passionate about it. I think that they respect what we are doing. We try pass on to them what excites us. But it’s not an issue for the time being. I very much want to try and make another 40 vintages!
Chef de caves of one of Champagne’s most distinguished independent houses: “The best things in life stay the same”.
For the ninth in Le Figaro Vin’s series we take our second trip to Champagne to meet Denis Bunner, #42. His interview reveals a distinctive perspective on Champagne, one which combines respect for traditional values with his vision for the future.
A son of Alsace, oenologist Denis Bunner joined the Champagne house of Bollinger as deputy chef de caves in 2013. Ten years later he has replaced Gilles Descôtes as head winemaker, taking over the reins in a seamless transition. With a remarkable collection of over 700,000 reserve magnums, Bollinger enjoys its status as one of Champagne’s most iconic houses. It remains one of the pioneers of Coteaux Champenois with its renowned La Côte aux Enfants, while with every passing vintage it maintains the purity of an utterly inimitable style.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Denis Bunner: It is a little disconcerting to be given that title because, as far as I am concerned, what matters most is team spirit. Although people tend to give all the credit to the chef de cave, the reality is that many separate elements combine to make a great champagne. My job is to bring out the power of the collective, to bring everyone together. I am also a musician and I love being the conductor. One should never forget that making champagne requires a great deal of time. Once you have finished with the composition there is a period when you have to let it rest, and then comes the disgorgement, another critical stage. It is important to recognise that we rely on expertise at every stage of vinification. Given that we carry out so much of the process by hand, the human contribution is crucial.
Have you been training for long?
From the cradle! My parents are winemakers in Alsace, and I have always been close to nature with an affinity for all living beings. I have been in Champagne for 20 years now, and I have been tasting two or three times a day since I was 20. I was fortunate to be a member of the Laboratory of Tasting and Sensory Analysis, and it is tasting that has mapped out my journey.
Who is your mentor?
It’s more a case of people who have inspired me. I have met a whole host of leading figures in Champagne who have enabled me to get where I am today. Among them was Gilles Descôtes, who has now left us (he died in January 2023, ed.). He is the person who really shaped me and showed me the way.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, absolutely. With 4,000 barrels in our cellar we stick to very traditional working methods, which are highly dependent on human resources, and that’s what makes Bollinger a unique champagne.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
Both of them. To begin with we devote an enormous amount of care and attention to every stage, from the vineyard right through to the phases of fermentation. After the fermentations we are engaged in an exhaustive quest for perfection, with our decision to vinify in small containers. It has to be a co-operative effort between man and nature, and close observation is the key to everything.
To what do you owe your success?
My parents, who have passed on their predilection for a job well done. They are rigorous in their attention to detail, aesthetics, and craftsmanship. That’s the commitment you have to make, without knowing if and when you will reap the rewards. The best feeling is when a wine reaches the market, and you realise that all your hard work has paid off. Over and above the desire to achieve success, there is the prize for perseverance. All the more so in Champagne, which takes a long view of time in a world that moves much too fast.
Is your family proud of you?
My parents are too modest to say so. They are very pleased that I have chosen to stay in the sector, but they are souls of discretion and I think they prefer not to mention it.
Your favourite colour?
Blue in everyday life, the colour of the ocean and serenity. It’s a colour which grounds us and is important to me. As far as wine is concerned then it has to be white, because of my roots and my culture.
The king of grape varieties?
My favourite is Pinot Noir because it’s the predominant grape variety at Bollinger. I love its style and its personality. It is temperamental, and it’s a characteristic of ours to vinify it for whites in the same way as for reds. We still have a Côte aux Enfants 1934 in the cellar, a wine that has never been marketed, but which remains delicious. We are proud to have played an integral part in the culture of still wines in Champagne, and to have been followed by many other houses. Nowadays these wines have become more full-bodied, mature further, and make very fine reds. Which is paradoxical, since while we try to slow down climate change, we also get to benefit from some of its effects. Since 1999 we have also profited greatly from our technical collaboration with Domaine Chanson, and we maintain some very strong relationships with Burgundy.
Your favourite wine?
It’s a Pinot Noir, on a foundation of 2015, which is in our house’s DNA. It’s a wine from the heart which I made with Gilles before he left us: the PNVZ 2016.
Your favourite vintage?
1928, which is freighted with emotion, the greatest wine in our Wine Libraries, and, to my mind, the greatest Champagne vintage of all. It is packed with freshness and complexity. In 1938 Madame Bollinger wrote: “The 1928 is great and I predict a great future for it”. We found these words in the archives after tasting it, and we can say that history has proved her right. We have always used cork for this tirage. The easiest approach would have been to use a metal stopper, but sticking to the concept of using cork is a stamp of the house style.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
Not necessarily a person. While I find it quite hard to pin down, I would compare it to the painting of a great master, to a landscape viewed from a passing train on which shifting planes are superimposed. Our champagne has a highly evolving style, you pass through successive stages of fresh, ripe, stewed, and dried fruits, before you enter the creamy dimension, followed by the salinity, the complexity…
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
My first answer is with friends. We remember some champagnes because we have shared them. In the first place, I love sharing. I was married last year and had a get-together with some childhood friends that I have known since I was four, where I was struck by something fundamental: the best things in life stay the same. My second answer, in my capacity as an oenologist, is in a blind tasting, for the fun of discovery and the experience of surprise.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
Not really, what would be the point? There is no call for it, it’s the direct opposite of what Bollinger is about. As Madame Bollinger already used to say, back in her day: “Less is more”.
Who is your strongest competition in Champagne?
As someone who cultivates a collaborative professional culture, I see the others as colleagues, not competitors, and there is strength in unity. If, on the other hand, I had to pick a role-model, I would choose winemakers who have been able to put love for the terroir back at the heart of things, the ones who have nurtured and reinvigorated the terroirs of Champagne. From our perspective, we are fully aligned with this approach to the terroir, and we are taking it forward, with the village-based expressions of PN, with the creation of La Côte aux Enfants in a champagne version, and with the whole range of our parcel-focused wines.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
I think more in terms of taking a step forward than of taking one up or down. So I do not see myself as on a podium. And for the time being the question does not arise.
Head of the estate and descendant of a family whose winemaking roots go back 500 years: “You can enjoy a rewarding conversation with a great wine all on your own”.
The eighth in Le Figaro Vin’s series finds us heading back to Alsace, to Domaine Zind-Humbrecht in Turckheim. Here we meet winemaker Olivier Humbrecht, #43, who has been responsible for the cultivation of over 40 hectares of biodynamic vines since the early 2000s. Picking up the baton from his father, Leonard, and assisted by his son, Pierre-Émile, Olivier Humbrecht creates sublime wines which fully express their extraordinary terroirs. He nurtures those terroirs with passion, commitment, and a profound respect for their natural balance.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Olivier Humbrecht: I am not sure what a winemaking champion is. Is it someone who wins a race or who tops the rankings? Everything is so subjective in the field of wine, depending on individual taste and the circumstances of tasting. If you really want to make a great wine you go through moments of dread, you are tested, you must challenge yourself repeatedly and be ready for the worst that the climate, technical issues, society, or anything else might throw at you. It can be a very stressful experience but, when you know you have given it your all, you have nothing to regret.
Have you been training for long?
Our family has been making wine in Alsace since the early seventeenth century. My first officialvintage is 1989. I am the 12th generation, my son the 13th. He joined the estate three years ago. It is important to acknowledge how far you have come and what you have achieved, as it is for any athlete. Training is partly to do with seeing how far you can push things without running into trouble. You have to take risks to win a race, otherwise you will never attain excellence, but you must be prepared for those risks. Training, for us, might better be called an apprenticeship in viticulture. There is a different level of risk management in the vineyard to that in the cellar. In the cellar the winemaker is exposed to fewer external hazards than in the vineyard. Just like in chess, you have to anticipate all the potential moves in order to react to each of the tricks that nature plays on you.
Who is your mentor?
My father. Your mentor is the person who can keep you motivated, especially in complex, adverse, or unforeseen circumstances. Others can provide technical support, but not necessarily moral support, and that is important too.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, absolutely. It’s extremely difficult to make a wine on your own. A winemaker depends on the contribution of others.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
You need both. The best racing driver will never win if he has a poor car, and he needs a support team too. You do need skill, but to make the most of it you need a terroir with a big personality. I always say that the quality of a wine is down to the winemaker, who has to make technical decisions, while a great wine is down to the terroir. The personality of a great wine is innate in a great terroir. And more than the terroir, our land, it’s down to the actual soil. The difference between a good wine and a great one is that the latter goes beyond the basic question of technical quality. It’s not just a case of being well made, a great wine has the capacity to transport the taster, to take him on a journey through time and culture, and to inspire him. And it must have a marked originality, transmitted through the terroir.
To what do you owe your success?
That rather begs the question of whether I have succeeded…I think that you really have to walk your talk. We can say all sorts of things that appeal to our customers, that the wine is unfiltered, that the vineyard is worked by horses. And while it is true that these things help to make great wines it’s not enough to say it, you have to actually do it. You have to be honest and humble. From my perspective honesty is an essential quality for making a great wine, you cannot afford to cut corners. It is possible to make a great wine by luck, and occasionally that may happen. But a great winemaker should be able to make a great wine, whether in a favourable vintage or a more testing one.
Is your father proud of you?
Yes, I think he is.
And your son?
You would have to ask him, but the fact that he has decided to work on the estate tells me that he sees something in it. One of the proudest feelings a father can have for his son is to have been able to pass on his love for the land. That love is visceral, a bit like one’s love for their child. That may be harder to understand if you don’t have a viticultural or agricultural background from birth.
Your favourite colour?
Grey or black, it changes with the seasons, white in spring, perhaps more yellow in summer and orange in autumn. Possibly green as the colour of nature. As far as wine is concerned, I absolutely refuse to answer the question, it is far too limiting. There are very good wines in every colour, not just red or white, although I have never seen blue wine or green wine! I don’t have a favourite between dry wines and sweet wines. What I don’t have time for are wines that bore me, which don’t have a story to tell. It has nothing to do with price, I want to feel the stamp of the winemaker’s labour, his dedication and his work ethic. And my mind is open to wines from across the world.
The king of grape varieties?
Jacques Puiset, former President of the Union of Oenologists, used to say that we should never blame the grape variety or the vine if the wine is no good. I wholeheartedly agree, there is no such thing as a lesser grape variety. Nor do I think that any grape variety is king, merely that some varieties are more tractable than others. When a grape variety is on the more testing side – such as Sylvaner, Pinot Blanc, or Auxerrois – so that you have to put more into your viticulture and into selecting the right location, your sense of achievement can be all the greater if you produce a great wine. You win more races with Pinot Noir, Riesling, Gewurztraminer, or even Pinot Gris. Muscat is rarely planted in Alsace, around one percent overall, but that would be a king for me, because if you come in first with a grape variety like that, it’s amazing!
Your favourite wine?
The Rangen de Thann Grand Cru. This is the most demanding of our vineyards, being very steep and evocative of extreme effort, but the hard work filters through to the wine, which is not always the case. It’s my favourite wine, not only for its quality but also for the energy you experience in the terroir. There is something about it which I find invigorating. For me a wine is a bit like a person. When you taste it there is a dialogue between you and the wine, and one wine can be tedious while another is animating.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
My wine is like a painting, like Picasso’s Guernica! One time in New York I spotted that it was on exhibition at MoMA. I felt the full power of the painting, the full import of the painter’s expression, experienced all the pain and sorrow. I don’t mean that Rangen de Thann is a source of pain and sorrow, but it transmits a powerful emotion. If I had to compare it to a person it would be Jacques Brel, who had the capacity to thrill his audience through the power of his words.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
You need to get into shape to taste a great wine. You have to prepare mentally and be open to pleasure. Then there are the technical requirements, such as the glass and the temperature. Many people say that a great wine is for sharing, but sometimes you are entitled to be selfish. Just as you have the right to watch a good film all on your own, you can enjoy a rewarding conversation with a great wine all on your own. There is one condition: don’t make others envious by telling them they have missed out, whereas you had it all to yourself! I frequently open a great bottle without regretting it later.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
Me, never, unless you count a glass of wine or an espresso…As far as I’m concerned adulterating wine is dishonest. A winemaker who does everything right can sometimes mitigate the effect of excessively hot summers and excessively cold or wet winters. If you genuinely give it everything the wine will always have something worth saying. Adulterating wine is just like Photoshop, you can never enhance the real thing. Or it may turn out that the wine is drunk by people who haven’t grasped the true value of the original, in which case it’s to do with customer education. Chemical intervention distorts the wine’s meaning. If you finally hit a brick wall, and the wine is really no good, your only options are to distil it or to make vinegar.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
That’s simply out of the question. People often say that everything has its price, but your love for your child is priceless. Would a mother sell her child? It’s almost an ethical and philosophical question. There are some plots that I might eventually sell some day, because of their limited agronomic potential, but without the good plots, the heart of the estate, there would be nothing left to live for.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
There is not much in the way of innovation. I am a fan of Einstein, who said that the most beautiful mathematical solution is always the simplest one. Innovation consists in seeking out the simplest and most beautiful pattern of work, to achieve beauty in the action of working. That involves giving up certain ways of doing things, even if you take advantage of other technical advances to relieve the more gruelling aspects of manual labour.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
My son! Or my daughter, should she ever decide to work on the estate.
Winemaker, oenologist, and director of Château La Verrerie in Puget-sur-Durance: “The terroir is a triptych, with the human at the centre, the climate and the soil on either side”.
For the seventh in Le Figaro Vin’s series of interviews, we travel to the heart of the Luberon, in Provence, where Valentine Tardieu-Vitali, #44, has set herself the task of taking Château La Verrerie’s already impressive wines to an even higher level.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Valentine Tardieu-Vitali: Taking on the challenge is energising in itself. Plus, it’s a feather in my cap. But you can never switch off if you want to stay at the top level. You have to stick to a rigorous regime.
Have you been training for long?
For a good ten years.
Wow! And always training with the same intensity?
Always the same intensity and no easing off.
How long do you train for on a daily basis?
For ten hours at least.
Every day, seven days out of seven?
No no, not seven out of seven, you must take the occasional break. I need to step back from time to time to get some perspective.
Five days out of seven then?
More like six days out of seven. Almost always.
And when you are competing – during the harvest?
Then I am busy day and night, seven days out of seven. It’s even more intense then. I become completely single-minded, exclusively focused on the quality of the harvest. Nothing else matters, nothing can distract me.
So you cut yourself off completely? Your sole focus is the competition?
Yes, it’s my only option. I have to win.
Who is your mentor?
I have a viticultural adviser and a vinicultural adviser, which makes two. And then I seek to talk things through with other leaders in the field, so we can share our knowledge, experience, and perspective.
Who are the other winemaking champions that you converse with the most?
First of all there’s my husband, Bastien Tardieu. I have other friends in wine who work at a very high level, particularly from Châteauneuf-du Pape. I also consult with Sylvain Morey, a colleague from our appellation.
Is wine a team sport?
Without any question. On your own, without a team, you are nothing. It’s through the choreography of each separate movement, repeated to the point of perfection, that you are able, step by step, to reach the heights. That’s the job I take on as team captain. I have to identify my players’ individual skills then put them in the positions where, with the right support, they can achieve their full potential.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the team captain?
The terroir is a triptych, with the human at the centre, the climate and the soil on either side.
To whom or to what do you owe your success?
I think it has a little bit to do with luck. As for whom? I would have to say Christopher Descours, because he trusted me to run La Verrerie estate, even though I was young and a woman! And then, underpinning everything, I have had to work for it.
When did you first fall in love with this sport?
When I was 16. I lived in Libourne, close to Saint-Émilion, where I went to see what this sport was all about. It was love at first sight and I’ve never looked back.
Do you ever dream of playing for Saint-Émilion?
No, I am happy where I am. I really love the Luberon appellation, which is still relatively undiscovered, and a natural environment. The approach to nature in the Luberon is markedly different from that in Saint-Émilion.
Are your parents proud of you?
I hope so, but that’s not what motivates me.
Who is your biggest supporter?
Christopher Descours.
Your favourite colour?
Red, because it is much trickier to master.
Your favourite wine?
Le Grand Deffand, because you have to give it everything you’ve got. It competes at an elite level, has an exceptional blend, and achieves outstanding results.
Have you won a lot of trophies with Le Grand Deffand?
I couldn’t care less about trophies. Nevertheless, it is beginning to win some. More importantly, it’s beginning to make its name. That’s why I really love this wine. On top of that, it’s quite unique.
How would you describe it in three words?
I would say it has elegance, subtlety, and soul. It has a soul precisely because so many people have contributed to its success, and that shows.
Your favourite vintage?
2006.
Why?
Because the wine is extremely subtle. It’s like velvet on the tongue and it ages really well. And, by no means least, because this vintage didn’t enjoy the greatest of critical receptions, which now gives it the element of surprise.
How do you see the rest of the 2023 season panning out?
I think we are well prepared even if, as things stand, we are always worried about drought. But we are constantly finding better and better ways to cope with the hazards of climate change.
Do you agree that the quality of your league increases with every season?
Yes, but then I also become more and more demanding. We have to be even better prepared and control every part of our performance. So yes, inevitably, we have to up our training even further, and perhaps I have to be more selective when it comes to picking my team.
Is the transfer market faring well?
It’s complicated. My teams are actually pretty well settled, but I would still like to build a bit more for the future and try to integrate more young players.
Do you have a mascot?
Of course, we have Marguerite. She is an eight-year-old Cairn Terrier and the mascot for La Verrerie. She supports us every day and she is always there, at every stage.