France’s 50 best winemakers: Perrine Fenal and Bertrand de Villaine of Domaine de la Romanée-Conti
New managers of the domaine: “Our dual leadership brings clarity and balance, allowing us to move forward more effectively.”
For the 43rd interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series, we return to Burgundy to meet Perrine Fenal and Bertrand de Villaine, who stand at #7 in the rankings. As leading figures in the region, they give us an insight into their passions, convictions, and savoir-faire in this exclusive first joint interview.
DRC. Three magic letters that any oenophile can instantly identify: Domaine de la Romanée-Conti, a legendary estate whose wines not only reach stratospheric prices at auction, but are also magnificently sumptuous and elegant, as if touched by a divine hand. This jewel of the Burgundy region, spearheaded for over fifty years by the iconic Aubert de Villaine and often considered to be the most prestigious estate in the world, is now run by Perrine Fenal and Bertrand de Villaine. Inspired by their illustrious predecessors, the two new guardians of the temple have achieved perfect harmony. Perrine Fenal, appointed co-manager in 2019 following the passing of her cousin Henri-Frédéric Roch, and Bertrand de Villaine, appointed in 2022 to take over from his uncle Aubert, represent the Leroy and the Gaudin de Villaine families respectively. The Gaudin de Villaine family has owned half of the estate since 1881; the Leroy family has controlled the other half since 1942. The new representatives emphasise the advantages of a historic system of joint management which, according to Bertrand de Villaine, “brings clarity and balance, allowing [them] to move forward more effectively”.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Bertrand De Villaine: We’ve never thought of ourselves as champions. What motivates us is not glory, it’s being out there in the vines.
Perrine Fenal: Our wines are the champions here.
Have you been training for long?
PF: I am self-trained, but I am lucky enough to have been born with winemaking heritage in my blood, soul, and heart, thanks to a grandfather, a mother, and a whole family of winemakers, whose know-how has been “infused” into me.
BDV: In contrast, I arrived on the scene later, some fifteen years ago now, and with a background more focused on international sales. I began training in the field from scratch, without the “infusion” that ran through Perrine’s veins. I wasn’t very closely involved with the estate when I was young. It all happened very slowly and steadily with my uncle (Aubert de Villaine, ed.). There was real training involved, both in terms of technique and passion.
How long have you been co-manager?
PF: Since 2019.
BDV: Since 2022.
Who is your mentor?
BDV: I started out in the vineyards with my uncle, and Henri Roch (the previous co-managers, ed.). And then, our estate workers were also my coaches, on a very practical level. Perrine and I are a real team: we coach each other and build our partnership every day. That’s the advantage of having two people, it brings clarity and balance, and allows us to move forward more effectively.
PF: In our family and within the estate, there have always been pairs of co-managers, sometimes with one less prominent than the other, but there has always been a representative from each family. I think that our way of working is quite special, it’s a real asset. At the moment, my coach is the life of the estate, our employees. Bertrand is also my coach. And we have Aubert, of course, as an inspiration, but he’s not a coach, he’s a sage. I also have my mother (Lalou Bize-Leroy, former co-manager, ed.) who, from afar, is also a presence and an inspiration.
Is wine a team sport?
BDV: We’re lucky to have such high-calibre employees. We learn a lot from them. We have a truly collaborative community that works very well, whether it’s from the vineyard to the cellar, or from the cellar to the vineyard, with us in the middle.
PF: Absolutely. We have all these essential jobs, all these people who are crucial to what each person does and to the final result, from the labourer to the person who packs the last bottle in the crate.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
PF: The terroir, without a doubt.
BDV: The terroir, and the respect that the winemaker has for the terroir, and therefore the winemaker too.
PF: It’s an osmosis between terroir and people.
BDV: If you don’t have the right terroir and the right vines on that land, and if you don’t have a good winemaker, you won’t make good wine.
To what do you owe your success?
PF: We are fortunate to have an exceptional terroir, which others before us have been able to identify, promote, and preserve. We have the immense privilege of holding it in our hands for a short while, and then passing it on to others.
BDV: Our real mission is to pass on and preserve the space that has been entrusted to us. Although there’s a title deed on a piece of paper, we don’t own this place: it’s a national asset, the legacy of a long history. This history is still very much with us, thanks to Saint-Vivant Abbey. Our greatest pleasure, our glory, will be to pass it on in as good a condition, if not better, than when we received it.
Is your family proud of you?
PF: Pride isn’t a word that’s used much in my house. Love, support, trust: these words have more value than pride.
BDV: We involved our two families, against their will, in this adventure. We work a lot, which creates constraints. I’m rather proud of them for accepting this. I hope that when our children see us working, they realise that it’s by working that we manage to have little comforts, little pleasures, and good times to share with others.
Your favourite sponsor?
PF: Lovers of our wines, who are moved when they open a bottle, quite apart from any question of price or snobbery, who rediscover the joy of celebrating a moment in life.
BDV: As Perrine says, the only thing that interests us is the emotion that our wine will bring out in a person or a group of people. Our best sponsors are the people who drink our wines.
What is your favourite colour?
PF: White, because it’s the sum of all the colours.
BDV: Blue, but it changes depending on my mood.
Your favourite grape variety?
BDV: A bit like us, it’s an inseparable pairing: Chardonnay and Pinot Noir. Here, we have no choice when it comes to our appellations and, in any case, these two grape varieties have proven their worth over many years in Burgundy.
PF: I’m sticking with our good old Pinot, which stands up to whatever the weather throws at it. Its expressions are so varied that there are a multitude of sub-families that we will never tire of studying.
Your favourite wine?
BDV: I have a special bond, an affection, for Saint-Vivant, whatever the vintage. It’s often the Saint-Vivant that gives me my first thrills when tasting a new vintage, but I appreciate all our wines for what they are.
PF: For me, it’s often La Tâche. In 2022, it was incredible! A real hero.
BDV: Sometimes, with La Tâche, you have to wait 20 years for its full expression, but in 2022, we had a Tâche that welcomed you with open arms.
Your favourite vintage?
PF: I’m very sensitive to new things, like births for example. My favourite vintage is the one that has just come out of the fermentation vats to be put into barrels: the 2023.
BDV: It’s not my favourite vintage, but perhaps the most memorable: my first vinification in 2008, when I asked myself “What am I doing here?”. We had to throw away half the grapes, it was a terrible vintage. Perrine and I were lucky enough to taste a few 1971s, three different vintages that were quite similar to each other. I had the impression that I was almost more impressed than the people we had tasted them with. You open a bottle of wine that’s over 50 years old, and the quality is incredible.
If your wine were a person, who would it be?
PF: Its terroir. That’s what makes a wine a great success. It would be simplistic to compare a wine to a human figure.
BDV: Each of our wines has its own character. The Saint-Vivant is a very welcoming wine, like a maternal figure who takes you in her arms, who is strong and tender at the same time. Grands Échézeaux is a marathon runner, a wine that starts slowly and takes its time.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
PF: Once again, it comes down to a question of mindfulness. Do you taste a wine to show your friends that you can afford it? That would be a shame. The best way is to let yourself be guided by your emotions, so that the emotion is there from start to finish.
BDV: With my old friends from before the estate. For some wines, I’m thinking in particular of the 1971s, you want to sit quietly in an armchair, in a moment of introspection, to drink them. Other wines are more suited to sharing; they bring an extra dose of conviviality.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
PF: Yes, I often think of using vitamin C!
BDV: We improve our grapes by adapting the pruning system, but that’s maintenance and training, not chemical enhancement, to strengthen the vines and produce better quality grapes. We don’t use any chemicals; we’ve been biodynamic for years. We work more on plant cover, on microbial flora and on maintaining our soils, sometimes adding a little fresh compost. Nature does all the enhancement by itself, producing large quantities of grapes due to conditions that are optimal for growing fruit.
PF: Sugar is a drug, and the sun has given us vintages with a high sugar content in recent years!
Who is your most formidable opponent in Vosne-Romanée?
PF: The sky, and the weather (which is also our ally).
BDV: In 2021, for example, the weather was a fearsome adversary and it won the race. That said, it didn’t win entirely because we have some very fine wines in this vintage, but we just don’t have many of them!
PF: It forced us to give it our all, which is always good when you’re up against an opponent.
BDV: There’s a lot of fair play in this battle with nature, because it takes a lot, but it also gives us a lot.
Who is your most feared competitor?
PF: Competition is a good thing. What we fear most are the vagaries of the climate that could deprive us of vines for several years: an extremely severe frost, devastating hail, for example, or a ravaging fungus, such as flavescence dorée. We are in competition with ourselves, vintage after vintage, with our own wines.
BDV: We don’t take part in competitions, in the literal sense. We have no desire to compare our Échézeaux to another Échézeaux, or our Grands Échézeaux to another Grands Échézeaux. On the other hand, they are our mirrors, which can sometimes be our most formidable competitors!
And your greatest achievement?
PF: I don’t have much of an ego, so I don’t have much pride. Maybe it’s my long years of yoga! I am profoundly happy, have moments of joy, moments of sharing, but no pride.
BDV: For me, they’re my children, but it’s more a question of satisfaction than pride. I’m satisfied to see them progress in life, and to know that the team I form with Perrine is working well.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
PF: We don’t really know the word “innovative” around here!
BDV: It would be more a general feeling of never being still. In other words, winemaking is something that’s in a perpetual state of flux, and you have to be constantly on the lookout without becoming overly anxious. We stay open-minded, we observe, we try to make decisions that are reversible. As far as the vines are concerned, we’ve decided to opt for a pruning method that enables us to encourage the growth of wood and bring life to the vines, so as to ensure their longevity.
PF: We’re starting the third season with a more personalised pruning of each vine, with the aim of creating as little dead wood as possible and encouraging the flow of sap as much as possible. This requires a lot of work and time. You have to be very reactive, very aware of what’s happening at the right moment.
BDV: This approach is less invasive. We realise that the winemaker himself does a lot of damage to his own vineyard, leaving wounds and scars. And perhaps we could also add that we have to be careful with technology. It can sometimes provide solutions that run contrary to the idea we are defending. In other words, the vine must also fight naturally. We can help it by pruning, for example, to defend itself against the cold, but if we intervene too much, we run the risk of erasing all the properties that the terroirs bring to the wines and, by doing so, creating wines without personality, that don’t reflect their vintage and their cru.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
BDV: We know full well that we’re just passing through. We don’t know today who our successor will be, there is no chosen one, no pretender to the throne. It will be someone who seems to us to have the same thing at heart as we do: the privilege [of managing the estate] and the humility that it requires. Our real mission is to give this domaine back to others.
PF: Honestly, it doesn’t even matter whether it’s within our families or not.