The 35th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series finds us once more in Champagne to meet Vincent Chaperon, #16 of France’s 50 best winemakers and cellar master of the emblematic champagne house: “I have quite an extreme nature”.
With his slender and athletic physique, preppy haircut, sharp gaze framed by thick-rimmed eyeglasses, and perfect diction, Vincent Chaperon is the kind of person one could easily find annoying, as he seems to have been unfairly graced with every enviable quality. But digging deeper, one might also sense a darker part, an urgency, and an eagerness to do well that is at odds with the hazardous conditions of a career that is at the mercy of its environment. Yet it is this tension, this fear of failure, that has crowned the young cellar master with success after success, where others might have settled for safety. “My time at Dom Pérignon has been something of a Bildungsroman: I was plucked straight out of school by my predecessor, Philippe Coulon (who passed in June 2023, ed.), and then raised in the maison” he recalls. “Despite my Bordeaux upbringing, to which I remain very attached, my adult life took shape in Champagne.”
Following a brief trip abroad, he was named oenologist in 2000, forming a virtually symbiotic duo with his predecessor Richard Geoffroy. “I arrived here with many expectations and ambitions, I wanted to prove something, and I had the chance to be inspired by people whom I loved very much, such as Richard, who helped me make the right decisions at times when I was growing impatient.”
This restraint bore its fruits: in 2017, the maison announced that he would be appointed cellar master the following year. “That day, I walked down the same hallways I always did, but everything had a different dimension, I looked back at the path that brought me here. It was an incredibly emotional moment.”
For the past five years, Vincent Chaperon has followed his ambition to fully embrace his role, without ever sacrificing its creative and sensitive dimensions on the altar of the operational. Eternally dissatisfied, he nevertheless describes himself as “profoundly happy”.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Vincent Chaperon: “I’m overwhelmingly happy and grateful to be where I am today. There is something exciting about this acknowledgement, that I really enjoy, because I am a fierce competitor. My friends call me “champion” because I’m always up for a challenge!
Have you been training for long?
Yes, for a very long time, at times excessively. I’ve always been conscientious and engaged. It’s a gauge for me: in moments of doubt, when my motivation is low, when I question myself. I have a real thirst for life, for this career, for people.
Who is your mentor?
Three people have guided my career. Firstly, my paternal grandfather, who was an admiral in the marine, on the Libourne side of my family. He passed on to me his passion for wine, indirectly and subtly. Later, Philippe Coulon and Richard Geoffroy, at Dom Pérignon. I was also lucky to meet Jeff Koons, who, in just a few hours, made me realise things about my career that resonated with me, particularly its eminently artistic dimension. More recently, I crossed paths with the chef Massimiliano Alajmo: we understood each other right from the start. These are people who open doors.
Is wine a team sport?
Totally. With a maison the size of Dom Pérignon, you need to know how to share, which is both a blessing and a curse. Having a common vision implies having a close-knit team for the long run, because you need to understand each other beyond words, through emotions, through memories.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
Both. I consider a “fine wine” to be first and foremost the story of an encounter between Nature and Man – which I don’t see as being in opposition, as long as humans work in harmony with their surroundings and strive to enhance Nature’s fruits. One must choose a place and attempt to give a part of oneself in return.
To what do you owe your success?
To this thirst I mentioned earlier. I have quite an extreme nature, unpredictable, I like to see things through and to do so in a radical fashion. I lost my brother early in life, and my thirst for life is unquenchable. Various encounters I made were also decisive, and one must put their faith in providence. I truly believe things happen for a reason. The people you meet have an impact on your path in life.
Is your family proud of you?
They are proud of who I am. I have often tried to compartmentalise, to find the right balance, but I’m realising that if I want to grow as a person, whether on a personal or a professional level, I need to be both mind and body. This is something that gives me a lot of thought. We are living in a very rational world, which thinks intelligently, through concepts, but we sometimes forget we are also bodies. One must have a holistic approach to better understand one’s heritage.
Your favourite colour?
Navy blue. Beyond being my favourite colour to wear, it says something about me: both my grandfathers were sailors, one admiral and the other a naval commissioner, and I think I am a sailor myself. In a way, this is my heritage.
Your favourite wine variety?
Pinot Noir, which I discovered through Dom Pérignon. It fascinates me. I love its tension, its versatility, its elusiveness, its fragility, it says a lot about us. And I say this as a Merlot man, which is not a contradiction!
Your favourite vintage?
2022 – I’m very attached to it, and had a very strong emotional connection with this vintage. Since 2018, I have always gone further, to affirm myself, to chart my own course, and this is what is conveyed in this vintage.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It would be the person who is enjoying it. Wine is the mirror of people, and what I am seeking is for people to have a connection with our wines.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
No. When I arrived, at 23 years old, it was like arriving at the town hall and seeing the motto “Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité” (“Liberty, Equality, Fraternity”, the French motto, ed.). At Dom Pérignon, simple and natural winemaking was the house philosophy. It was quite visionary. There has always been a willingness to be transparent, to not overuse oak. There had been some in the 1960s, but when we started to work with stainless steel, everything changed. We have strived to build balance and complexity through the fruit, the blend, and time – these are the three essential components.
Who is your strongest competition?
Me. This taming of the self, this quest for knowledge, what our calling is, and wondering where we bring the most to the world.
Which competition do you dread the most?
Marathons. I have run three to this day, and notice that, although I can go the distance, I am still an impulsive person. I need to learn to endure waiting over time. My objective for next year is the New York marathon, and I am going to train to experience it fully.
What is your greatest trophy?
My family, and my role as cellar master for Dom Pérignon, which is a reward rather than a trophy, because it is not something I display.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
I have made many changes thanks to my research, such as making creative decisions early in the process. This means having very strong cultural and emotional biases for what is going to go into each vintage. I want to blend technique and emotions to give things direction from the start. This requires making the body and intuition priorities, through observation, tasting, etc.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
We are not a family-run maison, and yet, we think of things over the long term, with long-lasting mentorships, in ways that are similar to family bonds. There may not be a set candidate today, but there are many people that I am watching over and accompanying along their career path. I truly believe in working in pairs, in complementary duos. Ideally, my successor would be a disciple in the Eastern sense of the word, someone who is here for the long run, who can prove themselves. At Dom Pérignon, one must approach this holistically: right brain, left brain, concrete and conceptual, with true emotional intelligence. In the end, I would want it to be a good person.
Co-owner and winemaker of his family estate in Arbois: “I got ahead by turning to the past”
The 34th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series finds us in the heart of the Jura, where Stéphane Tissot, #17, runs his family’s 50-hectare biodynamic estate. The 53-year-old now embodies one of the region’s most emblematic vineyards, inspiring and training a whole generation of future winemakers.
Over the years, a number of key encounters have led Stéphane Tissot to adopt a radically different approach to that of his father (Hervé, ed.), “who did a good job, but in a very classical style”. Having grown up amongst the family vines, 1990 was his first vintage. As with many young winemakers, he first made his mark in the estate’s cellars, where he put a stop to the practice of stirring the lees in the Chardonnays, before reducing chemical intervention on the vines as much as possible. While working in an Australian vineyard during the off-season, he found himself opening the same packet of yeast as the ones being used in France. “I realised there was a problem, and that’s what encouraged me to move towards a healthier way of growing grapes and making wine.” His shift towards organic methods allowed him to unlearn everything that his years of study had tried to instil in him: “At the time, we were going completely against the grain of what was being done in the Jura,” he acknowledges. “In our region, you can make any kind of wine: light reds, concentrated reds, dry whites, oxidative whites, crémants, the list goes on!” Despite having now made more than forty different wines and almost ten ullaged Savagnins (where the barrels are topped up with wine to prevent the oxidation process, ed.), he doesn’t seem to have lost an ounce of his enthusiasm, with any excesses managed by his wife and teammate of 30 years, Bénédicte. “Thankfully, we enjoy what we do!” he says, before heading off for the unmissable 9 o’clock coffee break with the rest of the team.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Stéphane Tissot: My wife is against the idea of star status, we’re very much country people first and foremost. We’re often featured in the media, which we’re certainly not going to complain about. I’m very happy to receive this honour, especially as we made the choice not to have a vineyard manager or an oenologist, and to be the only ones making decisions. It is a wonderful recognition of our work.
Have you been training for long?
Since I was a child. When I got back from school, my father would be waiting for me, as I was the only one who was able to get inside the smallest barrels to clean them. My old primary school teacher once told me that, as soon as it was harvest time, my marks would suddenly take a nosedive, as my thoughts were elsewhere. And, during geography lessons, I would mix up the Rhône Valley with the Côtes-du-Rhône.
Who is your mentor?
Many people have helped us along the way, giving us ideas. The first person who helped me was Jean-Claude Ramonet, who studied with me in Beaune. We drank a lot of Chassagne-Montrachet 1983 together, and it was the first time I understood the influence of the terroir on a Chardonnay. When it comes to crémants, the estate that really made me rethink my ideas was that of Guillaume Selosse, after a tasting in the cellar there. Last but not least, here in the Jura, I can’t go without mentioning Pierre Overnoy.
Is wine a team sport?
There are two possibilities: either you run your little 3-hectare vineyard on your own, or you work as a team. There are more than thirty people who work with us, most of whom are here all year round – many even decide to settle here. They call themselves “La Tissoterie” (a play on the Tissots’ surname, ed.). The important thing for me is that people are happy to come to work.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
First, you need to know how to make wine, and how to grow grapes organically. But that is not enough – to make great wines or wines that have personality, that is where the terroir comes into play. If you have a great terroir but a bad winemaker, you won’t get anywhere.
To whom do you owe your success?
To my parents and to my wife. I am the youngest of three children, and I was the only one who was interested in making wine. My parents instilled in me the importance of working hard.
Is your family proud of you?
I think so, but that’s something that nobody ever talks about where we come from.
Who is your best sponsor?
Our agents and importers in Paris, New York, and Brussels. They are the ones who put our wines in the spotlight.
What is your favourite colour?
I think of myself more as a maker of whites, but I spend more time making reds! Just like a politician ends up spending more time with the people who don’t vote for him than with the people who do.
Your favourite grape variety?
Savagnin, the Jura’s iconic grape variety, or Poulsard – but specifically for natural wines.
Your favourite wine?
La Tour de Curon, as it’s a parcel which is a good reflection of our history. We took it over in the early 2000s. Nobody wanted it, and we replanted the whole thing in the old-fashioned way, using massal selection and with horse-drawn ploughs. For Bénédicte and me, it is almost like a fourth child.
Your favourite vintage?
1999, which was a turning-point for us, both in terms of quality and winemaking technique.
If your wine was a person, who would it look like?
As for any wine, it should look like the person who made it.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wines?
Always slightly aired, as I work a lot on reduction. It is vital to take one’s time when drinking them and to allow them to age.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wines?
I did do it to my wines at the beginning of my career, then I was the first to stop chaptalisation, and I haven’t looked back since then.
Who is your most feared opponent?
The French system, which keeps us from creating wines due to the huge amount of administrative pressure it places on us. We can’t find workers to pick our grapes, we have constant tax audits, we pay heavy social security contributions, we have to deal with anti-fraud regulation, et cetera. It is a heavy burden to bear.
And the competition that you dread the most?
In damper years, disease control is the most stressful thing. I spend my winter months in the cellar, my summer months amongst the vines – that’s the rhythm that I like, but we’re constantly playing with fire.
What is your greatest trophy?
My children.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
I have a restaurant owner friend, who carried out research into the right side of the brain – the creative side. I think my tactic has always been to follow my instinct.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
I’d rather not say, as I don’t want to put any pressure on them.
Sixth-generation winemaker of his family estate in Vosne-Romanée: “We are always competing against ourselves”.
For the 33rd interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series we remain in Burgundy to meet Charles Lachaux, #18. Winner of the Golden Vines World’s Best Rising Star Award 2021, he is one of the most exciting winemakers in Vosne-Romanée, rewriting the rulebook for a world still firmly rooted in tradition.
With some thirty-odd years under his belt, and 15 hectares of vines, comprised of 15 Côte-de-Nuits appellations, at his disposal, Charles Lachaux represents the sixth generation of the family to take his place at the helm of the estate; an estate which he radically transformed within a few short years. One of his most recent innovations has seen wooden barrels entirely replaced by ceramic sandstone vats to give the brightness of his Pinot Noirs its purest possible expression. Here is no ordinary winemaker.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Charles Lachaux: I have been in the spotlight ever since winning the Golden Vines award and this is a lovely accolade. It’s always nice to get some recognition, but it represents a snapshot in time, and you then have to maintain the same level. We can all call to mind iconic winemakers, but when you have the opportunity to achieve that status there is no margin for error. In any case, I’m not an icon yet. We will have to revisit that question in 30 years’ time!
What is your greatest source of pride?
To have taken so many risks in such a conservative region and profession in order to achieve my goals.
Have you been training for long?
You train without even being aware of it. I was always involved in every aspect of viticulture and vinification, on Wednesdays, when we didn’t have school, and at weekends. I spent all my time on the estate.
Who is your mentor?
My parents. I have worked all over the place, but I learnt my trade here on the estate and my parents are the ones who gave me the grounding to get to where I wanted. From 2012 I began to make changes, starting with “la vendange entière” (whole-cluster fermentation, in which the harvested grapes are fermented in full bunches, still attached to their stems, ed.). There have also been some notable encounters which have broadened my horizons.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, but we should acknowledge that it takes a bit of both. We could not do everything without a strong team, but there are times when you are on your own as the winemaker, as the decision-maker. It’s always a combination of the two; I have sole responsibility for the decisions I take to the best of my knowledge and belief. The decisions are ultimately down to me, even though I share a good deal with my mother.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
It is easier to make a good wine with a good terroir and good vines, because the soil and genetic quality of the vines are paramount. The winemaker can only enhance them.
To what do you owe your success?
It’s due to circumstances. I made some very bold choices at a time when the world of wine’s attention was focused on Burgundy and a radical approach was all the vogue, so that’s what I went for. A number of others did the same thing, but not at the right time. My innovations have become fashionable: vine-trellising systems are changing, and people are buying ceramic tanks. The fact that these things work, and are not mere speculation, makes other winemakers want to try them out. I have been inspired by what I have observed elsewhere: leaving the vines untrimmed like Bize-Leroy, “la vendange entière”, the older vintages of Romanée-Conti and Dujac, Nicolas Faure’s échalas (a vine-trellising system used in the northern Rhône, whereby the vines are attached to individual stakes, ed.), and so on. Lastly, my success is also thanks to my family.
Is your family proud of you?
I think so, I certainly hope they are. I could never have done it all without them.
What is your favourite colour?
Red, because it’s my favourite wine.
Your favourite grape variety?
Pinot Noir. It’s a chameleon, it can assume different hues, different aspects, it’s never boring.
Your favourite vintage?
The next one. Every year we start from scratch, we see the changes in the vines and grapes, and we fine-tune things more and more.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
If I’ve done a good job then my wine looks like where it comes from and the people who contribute to it.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
In a simple way, just wanting to have a good time. Unfortunately we have lost sight of this in Burgundy, where wine now tends to be sanctified. That’s understandable, given the prices, but all the ceremony can spoil the enjoyment.
Who is your strongest competition?
Nature, which is also our greatest ally, as well as the constantly evolving conditions of production, with all the micro-organisms, etc. Nature allows us to make progress, but it can also ruin us.
And the competition that you dread the most?
We are always under stress, but a competition implies a capacity to fight. Frost and hail are not competitions because we can’t do anything about them. We shouldn’t be afraid of competition: we are always competing against ourselves.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
Not for any price because it’s not for sale. Besides, it doesn’t belong to me, I am merely the sixth generation and it’s on loan from my children.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
Someone with the desire to keep changing and progressing and who will not be seduced by fame.
Owner and founder of Domaine Philippe Pacalet: “We haven’t built all this just to buy a yacht!”.
The 32nd interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series takes us on our sixth trip to Burgundy to meet Philippe Pacalet, #19, at his winery in the heart of Beaune, a jewel in the viticultural crown of the Côte-d’Or. Producing wines from around 20 hectares of Chardonnay, Aligoté, and Pinot Noir, he is a winemaker at the height of his popularity who is finally reaping the rewards of his remarkable staying power.
Understated, playful, hyperactive, and impressively knowledgeable, there is no shortage of epithets when it comes to describing Philippe Pacalet, an iconic figure in the Burgundy natural wine scene and nephew of the legendary Marcel Lapierre. True to his convictions, he faced a real obstacle course upon entering the world of wine, having to endure widespread criticism before becoming, at long last, the height of fashion.
“In the 1980s we experienced a good deal of hostility, even malice. People were simply not ready for it. I am fond of saying that we were a bit too early getting to the station. I believe that the natural wine train has eventually arrived and this time we have managed to get on board.”
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Philippe Pacalet: I am honoured that people are taking an interest in me, and that my longevity and my determination to respect and improve on the work of our predecessors are being acknowledged. I just get on with it and, in any case, I don’t know how to do anything else. I keep my feet on the ground, and I think I’m on the right track. Over the course of 30 years, some things about me have changed. Back in the day, it was a constant battle, and I couldn’t let things go. Later, I began to mature, and now it’s gratifying to be recognised by my peers.
What is your greatest source of pride?
Being able to make a good wine with lovely aromas together with my team, and the fact that this allows me to live a happy life. I have been fortunate to find something that I am good at. It was always there inside me, but someone has to make it resonate for you. In this respect, encounters with others play a major part.
Have you been training for long?
I began to train seriously when I was 21, the age of reason but also of stupidity! That said, I have been immersed in the world of wine since I was tiny.
Who is your mentor?
Marcel Lapierre, my uncle, who taught me the value of traditional “farmer’s wisdom” and love for people, Jules Chavet for the scientific side of things, Jacques Néauport for his artist’s soul, and Michel Archawski who taught me how to run a business.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, a winemaker needs support. It is important to build a team and develop its expertise, but there are still decisions that you have to make on your own. It’s a profession with a very solitary side.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
Both of them. I believe that you need sensitivity, hard work, and a bit of passion. Terroir and winemaker go together, they form a unity. They are like a couple; things are not always easy. Humans are vertical creatures, whereas the ground is horizontal. It’s a meeting of the two, and there isn’t always a right angle!
To what do you owe your success?
I owe it to always having believed in what I was doing, to having stood up for my ideals, and to having listened, at least sometimes, to my friends. Finally, I owe it to having always had the courage, in moments of uncertainty, to go back to keeping things simple.
Is your family proud of you?
Yes, they have been brave enough to point me in the right direction and they have put their faith in me.
What is your favourite colour?
It has to be red, because I have been drinking it for a long time. These days I also make rosé (at Château Malherbe, ed.) and I drink some white wine, but red is still my favourite.
Your favourite grape variety?
Pinot Noir, which can be virile, not in a macho sense of course, can have an artistic side, and can engender powerful emotions. It has an earthy quality and is packed with power, elegance, and aromas. It keeps your feet on the ground.
Your favourite vintage?
1998, which has become a great vintage late in the day.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It looks like the person who made it. Wine is a mirror which sometimes reflects mediocrity, sometimes genius.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
With people I love, sitting around a table, not necessarily with food.
Who is your strongest competition?
Doing things by rote, which is the Achilles heel of our profession.
And the competition that you dread the most?
There isn’t one. What I find most stressful is the bureaucratic red tape which infuriates me.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
It’s not for sale so it doesn’t have a price.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
My children. My son, who is 30, already works with me, and will take over the estate, probably with his sister. We haven’t built all this just to buy a yacht!
Winemaker of his legendary family estate in Champagne: “There is always a lot expected of the younger generation”.
For the 31st interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series we pay our sixth visit to Champagne to meet Guillaume Selosse, #20, who is now at the helm of one of the region’s most sought-after estates. A model of discretion, he makes uniquely thrilling wines whose ratings continue to soar.
Domaine Jacques Selosse, founded by Guillaume’s grandfather, is situated in Avize, a small village in the Côte de Blancs. Known long ago as Ozannel-la-belle, Avize has been renowned since the 18th century for its well-balanced Blancs de Blancs champagnes, classified Grand Cru. Jacques Selosse settled here shortly after the Second World War in 1947 and, despite not coming from a family of winemakers, soon acquired some vines. In 1949 Jacques and his wife founded the estate that still bears his name, and the couple made their own wine for the first time in 1964. Ten years later their son, Anselme, joined the estate and embarked on an extended exploration of the methods and practices of viticulture and vinification. His never-ending quest for perfection lasted throughout his career. From 1990 to 1996 he applied the principles of organic farming, then graduated to a biodynamic approach. But from 2002 he distanced himself from the established norms of biodynamic doctrine, taking the view that we should not impose on nature. Over the last few years Anselme’s son, Guillaume, representing the third generation, has taken up the reins with verve.
Paradoxically, it was in Bordeaux that this new star of the Champagne winemaking galaxy experienced his true epiphany, while studying viticulture and oenology in Saint-Émilion. This was a carefully considered sideways step, which enabled Guillaume to meet young prospective winemakers from all around the world. It gave him a very different take on things than he could have acquired had he simply stayed on his home terroir. From his earliest childhood, the paternal reputation of the highly respected Anselme Selosse had cast a long shadow over the young Guillaume, who next decided to spend a year in Australia in order to come back to the estate much better equipped to forge his own path. From his very first vintages, by dint of close observation and sheer hard work, Guillaume has stamped his personality on the estate, and today he produces champagnes of incomparable vivacity.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Guillaume Selosse: I don’t really see myself as a champion. One of the current struggles facing winemakers consists precisely in keeping a cool head. It is vital we always remember that wine is about shared values, not market values. We have to resist this focus on the market, even if we are, fortunately, starting to see it reach its limits, especially in Burgundy. The price curves are beginning to come down; it was getting to be obscene. The world of wine is changing now that, I believe, we have reached a tipping point.
What is your greatest source of pride?
My own cuvée Largillier, which I made without paternal support. I made it on my own, my father never entered the cellar, and his first taste of it was from the bottle. It is the first wine that I made entirely on my own.
Have you been training for long?
As a young boy, I used to run around in the cellar, climbing on the barrels, and spending Sundays with my father, who would tell me: “Smell the wine, open the valve”, and so on. I have always been in a winemaking environment.
Who is your mentor?
At the technical level, my father, because I am always picking his brain, and it’s with him that I have developed my awareness of all the factors that come into play. However, I have also gained insights from winemakers during my internships, especially from Benoît Lahaye (selected as winemaker of the year for 2021 by le Gault & Millau, ed.). But basically, it’s my father.
Is wine a team sport?
A winemaker is a conductor: you need a team that can follow your tune, otherwise, it doesn’t work. There has to be a symbiosis. We have a team of five working full time between the vineyard and in the cellar, plus two in the office, as well as my father and me.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
I think that the terroir is necessarily key, but the decisions taken during the growing season count for a lot. This is especially true for making white wine, where it all happens in the vineyard, through our decisions about pruning, disbudding, yields, and harvests. With red wines, it is easier to have an impact during vinification, but with whites, it’s much trickier.
To what do you owe your success?
To my approach to tasting wines, to my never getting fixated on a particular region or grape variety, and to my going to meet with winemakers everywhere in France and in Europe. Exchanging ideas and discussing things is crucial, including with winemakers facing very different challenges from ours. The climate is changing so much that in the future even producers of Côtes-du-Rhône could become a source of inspiration. For example, my father once took part in the grape harvests in the south, and the things he learned there were of invaluable help with the 2003 vintage.
Is your family proud of you?
I hope so, I do everything I can to make them proud of me. There is always a lot expected of the younger generation.
Your favourite colour?
Right now my most wonderful surprises come from reds, from Burgundian reds in particular.
Your hero among grape varieties?
Chardonnay.
Your favourite wine?
My favourite, for all seasons and every stage of a meal, is Les Carelles. It’s a wine that perfectly expresses where it comes from, with a slightly roasted side, which gives it a Burgundian edge.
Your favourite vintage?
2009, for which I had a role both in the harvests and in the vinifications. If 2008 is still a work in progress, 2009 is honest, regal, always transparent, and full of joy.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
Curiously, I find it has an electric side to it, it’s off the beaten track, like a character on the fringes of society.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
Surrounded by friends and family, with bites of Parmesan, setting things up for a wonderful night.
Who is your strongest competition?
The climate, including recurring spring frosts, as well as significant issues with water.
And the competition that you dread the most?
The process of bottling. As far as the harvest is concerned, we have made our decisions and we stick to them. In the cellar, we have to set up the fermentation process, achieve a certain specific gravity, and so on. It’s incredibly tricky to get it right and it’s the culmination of our entire year’s work, which makes it particularly stressful.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
I have such an emotional attachment to it that I would never want to sell it.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
My children, Tara and Lazare, who are still very young. When it comes down to it, it will be whoever is the most passionate about it and doesn’t see it as something they are pressured into doing. I get that from my father, who never put pressure on me.
Managing Director and winemaker of Château Pichon Comtesse in Pauillac: “My wine is like Kate Bush”.
The 30th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series takes us back to Bordeaux, to Pauillac, where Nicolas Glumineau, #21, creates exquisite wines with added soul. His answers reveal his insights into a winemaking profession that he has pursued for 20 years.
The vineyards of Château Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande stretch out across 102 hectares in the heart of the Pauillac appellation, close to Premier Grand Cru Château Latour. The vines have an average age of 35 years and stand on terroir comprised of fine Garonne gravel on a clay subsoil. These vines are made up of a combination of grape varieties, currently in transition, that will shortly consist of 75% Cabernet Sauvignon supplemented by Merlot and Cabernet Franc. The Rouzaud family – of Louis Roederer Champagnes – took over Pichon Comtesse in 2007, ensuring that the vision of those predecessors, who had created these wines over many decades, would be sustained. At the helm since 2012, Nicolas Glumineau is a man whose fascinating career path has made him an expert in high-precision blending, alongside his qualities of humility and humour. Every year he vinifies this exceptional Deuxième Grand Cru Classé with considerable panache.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Nicolas Glumineau: I am certainly not a champion. I am a challenger, on behalf of myself, of Pichon, of the world of wine both here in Bordeaux and globally. I sincerely hope that 2022 doesn’t turn out to be the vintage of the century because we still have 78 vintages to go!
Have you been training for long?
For 20 years. My first vinification was at Château d’Escurac, with Jean-Marc Landureau (in the Médoc Appellation, ed.). Before that I wasn’t involved in the world of wine. I studied genetics and biochemistry at the University of Bordeaux, where I worked in Denis Dubourdieu’s laboratory and played around with Sauvignon Blanc wine yeasts, creating hybrids. That gave me the opportunity to develop a rigorous scientific approach and to practise experimentation.
Who is your mentor?
I have a number of them. First and foremost come my teams, because they help me to ask myself the right questions and to delve ever further into the meaning of wine and the work that we want to accomplish. Éric Boissenot is also a mentor: he has an extraordinary palate and is a man of great humility with a tremendous amount of knowledge. Jean-Baptiste Lécaillon and Frédéric Rouzaud (respectively Cellar Master and CEO of Maison Louis Roederer, which owns Pichon Comtesse, ed.) provide us with a framework that allows us a great deal of freedom, as well as some thought-provoking perspectives which help us keep improving.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
Terroir is a very French concept, with several different elements: the soil, the subsoil, the microclimate, the grape variety, the rootstock, and the human contribution, which come together as a unity that we call the terroir. So what is key here is the terroir, in all its complexity. Nature provides us with a score and our job is simply to interpret it.
To what do you owe your success?
To my wife and to my encounters with some very inspiring wines. And then a little work has also had a part to play!
Is your wife proud of you?
I hope so.
Who is your biggest supporter?
There are two of them. The first comprises the wine-lovers and the markets who are loyal to us. The second is Frédéric Rouzaud, who has invested a great deal in this property. Over and above his financial investment, he appreciates the time and energy required to implement a long-term strategy, and viticulture is always a long-term project. Time is a necessary luxury because it allows us to experiment, to understand, and to make the wine that we want to make.
Your favourite colour?
Fifty shades of green in the forest. When it comes to wine my favourite colour depends on what we are eating.
Your hero among grape varieties?
Cabernet Sauvignon. I find it has the completeness, all the aspects and subtleties that I look for when tasting a wine, the elegance and intensity in particular. While I also find these subtleties in other grape varieties, in my view Cabernet Sauvignon expresses them best. We have undertaken a huge re-planting job at Pichon Comtesse, which has involved increasing the proportion of Cabernet Sauvignon from 60% to 75%, at the expense of Merlot and Petit Verdot. When we have finished we will have around 75% Cabernet Sauvignon, between 15% and 20% Merlot, and some Cabernet Franc. That corresponds to what we have used in our blends over the last few years.
Your favourite wine?
I am very fond of a Diamond Creek label called Red Rock Terrace. It is a Napa wine, made from Cabernet Sauvignon and grown on a north-facing plot, which always has loads of style and elegance, and is serious without being too austere. It has a truly superb balance. I recommend the 2006.
Your favourite vintage?
In Bordeaux, 1989. And at Pichon, 2022 and 1989.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
My wine is like Kate Bush because I find her elegant, powerful, sinuous, poetic, and unique.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
Listening to music, in an isolated cabin, together with friends. We have made a playlist for our website with pieces of music for each vintage, whether jazz, rock, or classical. When tasting our 1989 I would listen to The Cure’s ‘Prayers for Rain’. It was a very dry year, so the song was a perfect counterpart.
And without friends?
You can enjoy it on your own, in a good leather armchair, with a decent hi-fi system, and most importantly, nothing else, no one else around, to ensure you can savour it undisturbed.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
My wine never but myself yes, with Mersault from Domaine Jean-François Coche-Dury!
Who is your strongest competition in Pauillac?
Force of habit. Viticulture today, even more than in the past, requires us to adapt, in the vineyard and in the cellar. That means constantly questioning what we are doing, being ready to experiment, and showing good judgment. Even when we are happy with the wine we have just produced we need to reflect on what we’ve done and ask if we could have done it better still. You can be very respectful of tradition, but that doesn’t mean simply sticking to tried and tested ways. You have to observe nature, remain very humble, and always think about how to improve and evolve. In Pauillac itself we don’t go in for competition so much as emulation. The most formidable rivals are the ones who are better than us. I have a great deal of respect for the way they work with their vines at Château Latour. We have plenty of things in common, including biodynamic and organic farming. And Château Lafite Rothschild has made some tremendous wines over recent vintages, 2022 and 2018 in particular.
And the competition that you dread the most?
My greatest fear today is that climate change gets even worse. That’s the real competition. Competition in the form of trying to match our rivals is really positive, it pushes us to do even better, but there is room for everyone. On the other hand, climate change means we have to work ever harder, and push the dial on our experiments ever further. I am afraid of the serious effect that climate change might have on the kind of wine that we can make in Pauillac. 2022 will be remembered as an extraordinary vintage, absolutely massive, which is a great thing. I love it because the Pichon Comtesse we made corresponds precisely to what we have wanted to make for years, in terms of balance, power, elegance, complexity, body, and sensuality. We also love it because we were the first to be surprised that the wine was so good. That means we were not in complete control. I will never forget how challenging we found it. We had to change how we did things almost every day. Just because 2022 is a great vintage doesn’t mean it was easy to make. But it’s a source of real joy, and that’s what makes every vintage different.
What is your greatest source of pride?
My children. And also my national first aid certificate!
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
Socrates said: “All I know is that I know nothing.” Questioning everything is always the best strategy when it comes to tempering empiricism with an admixture of technology. Experimentation is always my best innovation and frequently results in less interference with the terroir. “Less is more” as they say. A good example is replacing tillage, which requires a lot of time and effort, with grass and plant cover. It’s a case of working the soil less in order to make it drain better and make it more alive. We realised that the less we worked the soil, the better it was for the vines. Working with biodynamics for the past 12 years has led us to revisit a number of established agricultural practices. In the final analysis you get higher quality production from a living soil, and when you have ripe grapes there is less need for extraction during vinification, because the balance of juice and wine is already there from the start. It is there in the fruit.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
My successor will be ranked higher than I am, so I have two: Jean-Baptiste Lécaillon and Jean-Philippe Masclef, technical director of Haut Brion.
Founder and winemaker of his estate in Nuits-Saint-Georges: “I feel like an eternal beginner”.
The 29th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series finds us once again in Burgundy where we meet Thibault Liger-Belair, #22, one of the most acclaimed winemakers in the region. His renowned estate, emblematic of the Côte de Nuits, lies at the heart of Nuits-Saint-Georges.
The Liger-Belair family has been a fixture in the world of great Burgundy wines for almost three centuries. However, Thibault Liger-Belair represents the first generation from his branch of the family to make his own wine. Founded in 1720 at Nuits-Saint-Georges, Les Établissements C. Marey was one of the most important wine-trading houses in Burgundy. In 1852 the Marey family joined forces, in business and through marriage, with Count Louis Liger-Belair. In much more recent times, after two and a half centuries in business, the famous Maison de Négoce went under in 1979, and what was left was sold in 1982 on the death of Xavier Liger-Belair. Xavier’s son, Vincent, then bought back the premises and maintained the Burgundian winegrowing estate whose lovely terroirs still remained in his branch of the family, namely Clos de Vougeot, Richebourg, and Les Saint-Georges. In 2001 Vincent’s son, Thibault, took over the vineyards and founded the winemaking estate, to which he gave his own name. We should be careful to distinguish it from Domaine du Comte Liger-Belair in Vosne-Romanée, whose owner, Count Louis-Michel Liger-Belair, is a distant cousin of Thibault’s, their respective great-grandfathers being brothers.
In his quest to give sensitive expression to his terroirs, Thibault has, over the years, developed his personal vision of the winemaking profession. In 2004 he started a trading operation to augment the range of his Côte de Nuits terroirs (the wines produced from the grapes he buys in carry the name ‘Successeurs’ in place of ‘Domaine’). His estate has been certified organic since 2005, and he has applied a biodynamic approach since 2004, albeit eschewing biodynamic certification in order to maintain an independent approach to this form of viticulture. He has also produced wines in Beaujolais since 2009, in the Moulin-à-Vent appellation, where he creates exquisite Gamays.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Thibault Liger-Belair: I don’t feel like a winemaking champion, without pretending to false modesty. We are on a never-ending quest. Becoming a champion of wine is ultimately unattainable because we are always trying to do things better. A winemaker who thinks he has made it is a winemaker who should give up making wine, because he believes he has reached some kind of pinnacle. That is more than ever the case today, subject as we are to the effects of climate change. We have to keep looking for new solutions. I feel like an eternal beginner, albeit one who makes fewer mistakes than in the past because I have a slightly more intuitive grasp of things.
Have you been training for long?
I have been training for a long time, but there is still a long way to go. My training started from the moment that I started to taste wines with the idea of making them when I began my studies in 1991. I started training as an amateur, but since creating the estate in 2001 I have trained a bit more professionally and consistently. I took a big step forward when I was able to double my training regime. In 2009 I made my first vintage in Beaujolais, which gave me the opportunity to conduct two vinifications in two different terroirs. I then developed twice as fast because working with two different terroirs, climates, and soil structures allowed me to see things from a broader and deeper perspective.
Who is your mentor?
My mentor is my fear of making mistakes, and my determination to keep asking myself what I need to do to improve. I don’t have a mentor as such, but I do have people that I look up to, without idolising them. Our vocation is, first and foremost, intensely personal, founded in our desire to give something back through our wine. And the very foundation of our profession consists in the constant sharing of experience and ideas. The stupidest thing a winemaker can do is to declare they have a secret, particularly in a world in which human relationships are becoming more remote.
Is wine a team sport?
Of course. When you do it on your own you do it badly. When you do it with others you do it well. It’s all down to teamwork. Winemakers are frequently being filmed, photographed, or interviewed like today, but the reality behind the wines lies in the teams we choose to work with. We all work with a shared sense of purpose but everyone, with their unique personality, brings something individual to the table. I am fond of saying that we only have one mouth, but we have two ears. That surely tells us something.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
A great wine is a triptych. A terroir is like a lovely piece of music, a beautifully composed score, and the notes are the same for everyone. Then there are the tools, like Pinot Noir or Gamay, which are our musical instruments. Finally there is the interpreter, the musician or the winemaker. Even though we play the same notes, we will never produce identical results or emotions. I don’t know exactly why that is, but it is the complementarity of those three components that makes a great wine. I am against the idea that the terroir is what matters most. Every terroir has been planted by men and represents years of research, observation, and the desire for excellence. I give precedence to the men who decided to plant the terroirs in order to make great wines from them.
To what do you owe your success?
I am very open with respect to this question. In the first place I had the good luck to be born with a silver spoon in my mouth, because I have had the opportunity to work with great terroirs. Otherwise we would arguably not be doing this interview today. I believe that my success is also down to the fact that I have been lucky enough to do what I love, and to have a job which makes me happy to get up every morning – even if some days are easier than others. When you do what you love doing it’s no longer work: it’s continuing to grow and live out a passion.
Is your family proud of you?
Yes, I think so. I have an unusual background, in that my father had nothing to do with the world of wine. I and my cousin (Louis-Michel Liger-Belair of Domaine du Comte Liger-Belair, ed.) are the first generation of winemakers in our family. In the 1970s my grandfather had told my father: “Whatever you do, don’t go into wine, there is no future in it.” It was during the time of the OPEC oil crisis and wine sales suffered badly. The fact that we have got the family business back on the road and restored the entire property is the source of some family pride. As for myself, I am proud of it! Without false modesty, I am happy to be where we are today, even though we still have some way to go. I am proud that my family is proud of it.
Who is your biggest supporter?
My wife, who occasionally tells me that she admires what I am doing, although she never lets me get complacent! I think of all my customers who sometimes tell me that our wines have moved them, and that is our quest, our Grail. It is the love and happiness that we have managed to provide. In our profession there is an element of selfishness because we necessarily make wines for ourselves, which suit our own taste and represent who we are, while at the same time we have to demonstrate our generosity in the hope that our wine brings a great deal of pleasure to others. Obviously we make wine in order to earn our living, but in Burgundy we are lucky enough to get very good prices for our wines. That makes it even more imperative to do everything we can to justify those prices through the emotions and happiness that our wines can bring to our customers. That requires a number of sacrifices, but we make them for good reason.
Your favourite colour?
It’s blue, the blue of the foil capsules on my bottles, of the sky, of the sea. It’s a colour that makes people happy. It goes very well with my landlubber and my nautical sides. Blue is very soothing and comes in many shades.
Your hero among grape varieties?
A hero is someone who does something extraordinary when you are not expecting it. That rules out Pinot Noir because we always expect great things from it. So I would go for Gamay, which can take us much further than we would necessarily expect. Pinot Noir ousted the “disloyal” Gamay in 1395, at the behest of Philip the Bold (Duke of Burgundy, ed.). Gamay, when planted in high quality terroir, with vines cultivated with respect and grapes vinified and matured with care, produces great wines. But it’s about more than the grape variety, you have to plant them in the right place.
Your favourite wine?
Les Saint-Georges. It was my first cuvée in 2002, and the one that I have been fighting to get Grand Cru classification for since 2007. We have a real opening for this classification, and I am convinced we can achieve it and correct what is an anomaly within the next ten years or so. It is my heart’s terroir. Sometimes we don’t need to say any more than that to express our love.
Your favourite vintage?
2008. It’s not necessarily the vintage everyone would expect but it’s a vintage that really helped me develop my winemaking skills. It was really tricky, August was unusually wet, and together with our grape-pickers we ended up separating out every bunch, one by one. Between 2002 and 2007 I found making my wines quite stressful and experienced a lot of self-doubt. So I said to myself: “Thibault, you pretty much know how to make wine, if you make a mistake it’s not such a big deal, but all the same you are going to try to get it right because it’s your daughter Jeanne’s year of birth.” And something shifted. I understood that I couldn’t afford to be stressed because that affects the wine. Some vintages are easier than others, and 2008 wasn’t a vintage with great ageing potential, but when you taste the wines today they are amazingly good!
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It’s a little bit like me, there is a certain resemblance there. Funnily enough, a customer said to me: “When people look at you, you make them think of wines that are full, rich, and concentrated, but when people taste your wines they find them, instead, delicate, elegant, and often highly distinctive.” People expect my wines to correspond to my external appearance – to my physique in particular. But my wines probably express what I am like inside.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
With friends, never on your own. What works best is to taste it slightly chilled to begin with, so that you give it time to warm up and then get to experience all it’s aromatic variations and a gradual intensification.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
A decent shot of red to get going, that’s a good drug! Yes, I have thought of adulterating my wines in the past, it would be dishonest to pretend otherwise. Like many others I have suffered from doubts. I would try adding a bit of this and a bit of that, but it never worked. On each occasion there was something wrong with the harmony of the wine. I tried things out, I made mistakes, and I learnt from them. Nowadays, while I don’t seek to make “natural” wines, I try to make wines as naturally as possible. Even if my wines can show a degree of austerity when they are young, they will mellow as they age. Wine is a tribute to time, it exists in real time, you cannot cut corners and speed things up or slow things down.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
I am not prepared to sell my estate. It is my life, along with my family. It’s my working instrument. What would I do without it, were I to sell it? I don’t know how to do anything else; I am not someone who is especially cultured or intelligent. I just try to make a good job of what I love doing. If I were ever forced to sell it would be for the market price. We are the owners of our vineyards on paper only. The reality is that we are merely custodians before we pass them on to future generations. An estate is always being prepared for those who come next, but if my children don’t want to take it over, all the better for them, so long as they follow their hearts. Perhaps they will come back to it, perhaps not. I don’t want to tell them what to do, it would make me too miserable if they were not as happy as I am. As for the vines, they will always be there. I am an eternal optimist!
Who is your strongest competition?
I am always competing against myself because, when I taste my wines, I check for any defects before I look for their good qualities. We only have allies in our profession: in particular, the soil, the climate, and all the wildlife. And even when we experience a climate event like the frosts of 2021, we must always remember to be grateful. We work with an unknown and higher power that we cannot control, and when nature doesn’t help us then it’s up to us to help ourselves.
Which competition do you dread the most?
The biggest struggle is to preserve the freshness in our wines, so that they continue to be like Burgundy wines and are not completely altered by an excessively hot climate. It’s about our capacity to adapt to climate change. We shouldn’t complain about global warming, we have to understand why it’s happening and do everything in our power to prevent it warming up too quickly. Mother Teresa used to say: “We realise that what we are doing is only a drop in the ocean. But without this drop the ocean would be missing something.” On the estate the winery consumes minimal electricity and water. We treat the water in order to return it to nature in the same condition that we found it. We try to ensure that 95% of our materials are recyclable. All these are tiny drops of water, not a revolution. Soil is the most efficient absorber of carbon dioxide, so we should treat it as an incredible factory for capturing the damaging emissions caused by our modern society and then we could really achieve some positive results. For the past 50 years we have focused on the needs of our plants and not on the needs of our soil. Our knowledge of the soil is very limited, we currently only understand 15% of what is going on there. Our work has straightforward aims: to create real freshness in our wines, to produce appetising, mouth-watering wines, and to preserve the fertility of the soil. When all is said and done we are farmers, people of the soil, and we have to concentrate on the requirements of the soil, we have to get back to the fundamentals.
What is your greatest source of pride?
To have achieved a balance between my professional life and my personal life, because it’s a job that can be very demanding and one which requires quite a few personal sacrifices. I have got a team of great people around me, and I wouldn’t be where I am today without my family behind me. When you receive you have to give, it’s a fundamental balance.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
I’ll start with the cellar. In the first place, we are determined not to incorporate anything into the wine which is not naturally occurring, namely sulphur. We have stopped using petrochemically-produced sulphur-dioxide and we now work solely with native sulphur. That has fundamentally changed the appearance of our wines and we no longer feel we are harming the wine like before. On top of that, we have just completed the renovation of the entire winery. You have to work really hard in the vineyard in order to be as lazy as possible in the winery and avoid an excessive workload when it comes to extraction. Our new tanks, based on the golden ratio that we introduced in 2022, create Brownian motion through temperature exchanges between the exterior and interior. For me that is a genuine innovation. As for the vineyard, by contrast, our approach has been to take a step back to the older ways of doing things. I have practised biodynamic cultivation for quite a few years now, having started in 2004. We applied for certification in 2007 but I turned it down in 2012. I found it required a dogmatic approach that jarred with my convictions. I believe in two things in life, science and God. There are lots of good things in biodynamics, but we should not slavishly follow agronomic principles, we should observe them in practice in order to come to an intuitive understanding of what works. I don’t want to follow prescribed formulae.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
Someone with the same passion, whose eyes gleam when they talk about wine. Someone who feels good outdoors, among the vines, and, above all, someone who makes wines that are very different from mine. Someone with awareness, who is sure of their taste, with the strength of mind to do things their own way and not just follow in my footsteps. I am not looking to be a mentor, but if they need me I will be there!
Owners and winemakers of their family estate in Roussillon: “In their finesse and their personality our wines are like women”.
For the 28th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series we pay our first visit to Roussillon to meet the Danjou brothers, Benoît and Sébastien, #24. Domaine Danjou-Banessy, in Espira-de-l’Agly, is poetically situated between the precipitous slopes of the Pyrenees and the foothills of the Corbières. The estate is home to several generations of vines between 15 and 120 years old, spread over a mosaic of soils that put the Climats of Burgundy in the shade.
This is a family history that has skipped a generation. Artisans and farmers in their souls, Benoît and Sébastien Danjou joined forces to take over their grandfather’s 32 hectares of vines, surrounded by 20 hectares of woodland, forest, and moor. As Sébastien made clear, although their grandfather had always treated the land and nature with respect, “the estate was showing signs of serious neglect”. For all the charm of its hundred-year-old vines, their productivity had steadily declined. “We have kept the old vines in good condition,” added Sébastien, “while cutting out all forms of aggressive intervention”. Now certified organic, and cultivating an area reduced to 20 hectares, the two brothers produce magnificent Grenaches, Carignans, Muscats, and other southern grape varieties, and remain unwavering in their refusal to rest on their laurels. They are two of the most talented winemakers in Roussillon.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Sébastien and Benoît Danjou: We are delighted, but being champions is not core to our philosophy. We don’t want to be famous, we just want recognition, above all from our peers. We are not looking to make the best wine in the world.
What is your greatest source of pride?
To have managed to carry on working in the simplest way possible, with the mindset of artisans and peasants. The latter were looked down on, unjustifiably, and we are determined to stick with this approach, working exclusively with what we produce on the estate, without buying any grapes in.
Have you been training for long?
Since childhood. We haven’t had any academic training. And we know that an entire lifetime of training isn’t enough – there is always something new to learn.
Who is your mentor?
Surprisingly we have never had one. We spent ten years overhauling a family estate and never had the time to check out what was going on around us, either locally or further afield. Without a mentor, we had to learn from our mistakes. Since we became established we have opened our minds through a number of visits to estates where we have found common ground or, conversely, fundamental differences in approach.
Is wine a team sport?
Absolutely. Our team is very small but essential.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
The terroir, without any reservation, and we try to express it as precisely as we can.
To what do you owe your success?
To numerous encounters which have helped spread the word about our wines. We are regularly classified in the natural wine category, although we don’t claim any affiliation. We do feel a connection to it, but it’s become a kind of compartment, with an increasingly fuzzy definition, in which we feel less and less at home. It’s true that natural wines are proliferating, and that’s a good thing, but plenty end up down the drain!
Is your family proud of you?
Yes, although none of them would ever say so.
Your favourite colour?
Let’s say not too white, as that suggests the need for clarification, and not too red, as that indicates excessive extraction.
Your favourite grape variety?
Carignan, which is a grape variety for the future and one that has been widely disparaged for its rusticity. It has just been poorly understood. Carignan is a late variety, well-adapted to climate change. We would agree that it is hardy, from a physiological perspective, but it has a lovely acidity. It’s the Roussillon grape variety that deserves wider recognition, whether as Carignan Blanc, Gris, or Noir.
Your favourite wine?
For me (Sébastien, ed.) it’s Estaca, and for my brother Espurna. We are deeply attached to all our wines, but these two are made from very old vines and we feel indebted to those who worked them before us. They have been through more than 100 prunings and we are full of admiration and respect for their longevity.
Your favourite vintage?
2020, a really complete vintage.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
We hope that our wine resembles Roussillon, and we are always saying that in their finesse and their personality, our wines are like women. They don’t parade their muscles; they aren’t show animals with broad shoulders!
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
In company, in any number of situations. A friend likes to tell us that there are no great wines, just great bottles. A bottle is always the coming together of a time, a place, and people, whether previously acquainted or not.
Who is your strongest competition?
This year we have had quite a struggle with the climate, but we have a great deal of respect for it.
Which competition do you fear the most?
We have some problems with water, especially in the summer of course, but no particular time is really more testing than others. Here in the south we are not afraid of summer drought.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
We couldn’t put a price on it. We appreciate, nevertheless, that vineyards are subject to major speculation. However, that is not such a bad thing since it’s reassuring to know that our work has a tangible value, even if the speculation sometimes verges on the ridiculous.
What is your greatest trophy?
We still have plenty of room to improve. We are satisfied but never complacent. That’s what drives us on a daily basis.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
We would be happy for our children to take over, but they are still young. This job is a true vocation, and we are not going to push them. We would like them to share the same values. Passing the baton is something fundamental and we won’t indulge in hypotheticals. Winegrowing is transgenerational and we have to accept that each generation will have a different way of doing things, but we would like to hand the estate on to people who have truly understood our work.
Actor and winemaker of his renowned family estate in Meursault: “Mersault was always on my mind”.
For the 27th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series we head back to Burgundy to meet Jean-Marc Roulot, #24. As both an actor and a leading figure in the vineyards of Meursault he defies categorisation. His sensitivity and intelligence shone through our meeting.
Both his grandfathers were winemakers in Meursault, and Jean-Marc Roulot has always been immersed in the world of wine. But if his DNA led him to undertake a vocational training course in viticulture and oenology in Beaune, he later changed direction to pursue an artistic career. “I dreamt of nothing but the theatre, I was always at the cinema, but I kept it to myself,” he confides. “After a couple of years working with my father, I told my parents that I wanted to be an actor”. So he moved to Paris without a penny to his name, enrolled at the Conservatoire d’Art Dramatique in 1980, when he was 24, and embarked on three years of study which allowed him to rub shoulders with the biggest names in theatre at the time, all the while “reassuring his parents”.
In 1982, when he was still a student in Paris, his father died following an illness. The estate was then managed by the American, Ted Lemon, who arrived in January 1983, followed by Jean-Marc’s cousin, Franck Grux, who left in 1988 to pursue his career with Olivier Leflaive. The following year Jean-Marc returned to take over the vineyard, but without giving up his acting career.
“Meursault was always on my mind, and when my cousin left I had to make a decision. I had a deep attachment to the estate; I wanted it to carry on and I wanted the wine to be good. At the age of 30 I finally appreciated what it stood for. I came back on one condition: that I would continue to be an actor.” Today, along with his sister, Jean-Marc Roulot embodies the sixth generation of an iconic Burgundy family, co-ordinating his responsibilities as a winemaker and distiller, while still allowing himself to act in the occasional film. Graced with an exceptional humility, he quietly concludes: “Theatre helped me understand that I could also put something of myself into a wine”.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Jean-Marc Roulot: I am happy that my wines and the work of the estate team have received this recognition. It’s great, but I don’t want to wallow in it. I am constantly challenging how we do things; we can never afford to stand still. And, when I look at the world of wine today with its crazy prices, I remind myself that I am also an actor looking for work, and that calms me down!
What is your greatest source of pride?
My team!
Have you been training for long?
Yes, I have always been immersed in it, alongside my father. That was part of our family life, it’s how we were brought up back then.
Who is your mentor?
I could mention Hubert de Montille, my former father-in-law, who taught me a lot and was hugely supportive. There are also certain wines that have profoundly affected me, such as François Jobard’s Meursault Premier Grand Cru Genevrières 1973.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, absolutely.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
It is the combination of the two that is interesting. The terroir is like a screenplay: if you give the same screenplay to two directors they are not going to make the same film.
To what do you owe your success?
To the work of my parents, as well as to my ten years in the theatre, and more specifically to my teachers, Jacques Lassalle and Michel Bouquet, who taught me the importance of attention to detail.
Is your family proud of you?
You would have to ask them. My eldest son puts a lot of pressure on himself. He will write a new chapter in his own image. An estate is an instrument that we pass on, not something immutable.
Your favourite colour?
Blue.
Your favourite grape variety?
Pinot Noir. It is so expressive that I find it moving.
Your favourite wine?
Les Luchets, because it was the village Meursaults that first established the estate’s reputation. There are also emotional and family reasons behind my choice.
Your favourite vintage?
- It is a truly great vintage for whites and the year that my eldest son was born. Nature was on our side.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
I would love my wines to have the grace of a Max Ophüls’ film.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
I like to be focused and somewhere intimate with my family or my friends, in the late morning or late afternoon. I also like drinking when we hold the Paulée (the celebratory lunch held at the end of the grape harvest in Meursault, ed.), where it requires a real effort to concentrate. Remember, not everything is just given away in the glass, we have to put in the effort.
Who is your strongest competition?
Myself, because I don’t know when to stop. Still, we have to focus on what we’ve got.
What is your greatest trophy?
I am not a great collector of medals, but let’s say my certificate for climbing Mont-Blanc!
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
A wine fanatic, capable of learning from the past but without feeling pressured or bound by it, who would not be influenced by the latest trends, and who would simply want to make the wines that he or she wishes to drink, freely, with love and an open heart.
Winemaker of this cult grower Champagne in Montgueux: “I don’t have any competitors, just hazards!”.
The 26th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series takes us to the Aube where Emmanuel Lassaigne, #25, creates some of the purest champagnes in the region at the helm of his family estate. Here he reveals the unconventional approach that has made him one of the favourite Champagne winemakers at the finest tables in the world.
Situated in Montgueux near Troyes, the Jacques Lassaigne estate, comprising 4.7 hectares, was established in 1964. Often compared to the terroir of Montrachet in Burgundy, Montgueux lies at the northern edge of the Côte des Bar, enjoying cool climatic conditions on a limestone hillside which overlooks the Seine Valley. Emmanuel Lassaigne took over in 1999, converting to organic and biodynamic cultivation. While Pinot Noir is typically planted in this region, Emmanuel Lassaigne marches to a different tune, seeking to produce distinctive Blanc de Blancs champagnes by means of vinifying partly in barrels, disgorging entirely by hand without ice, and eschewing the addition of any sulphur or sugar. This rigorous approach produces perfect champagnes for high-end gastronomy, highly sought after by top sommeliers.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Emmanuel Lassaigne: I played a lot of sport and I dreamt of being a champion: it’s a belated reward!
Have you been training for long?
Yes. When you are a winemaker you work on a solitary piece of land. If you think about it, it’s not much of a playing field. So I create ephemeral wines, always following the same approach, and I make between five and eight different cuvées every year, in sherry barrels, port barrels…so I have done a lot of training, and every vintage is different, with its own unique characteristics.
Who is your mentor?
We are fortunate in having Aux Crieurs de vin (iconic restaurant and natural wine bar in Troyes, ed.), which played a significant part in my initiation into the world of artisan natural wine. I should also mention my encounters with winemakers from the school of Lapierre (Marcel Lapierre, of Domaine Marcel Lapierre in Beaujolais, who was a pioneer in the field of organic cultivation, ed.), which have had a key role in my development.
Is wine a team sport?
We are a team in some respects, yes, but when it comes to winemaking I am on my own. I need to decide things for myself, not as part of a committee.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
The terroir. But we should put this in perspective, because not everyone shares the same taste. I think we make the wines that we like to drink ourselves and, in that sense, we are led by our personal preference. Here, we deal in small volumes and don’t have the weight of history on our shoulders. The chef de cave of a great house is a conductor who has to follow a musical score. Me, I’m a jazzman!
To what do you owe your success?
To some pivotal encounters. When I took over my parents sold our entire production directly from the estate. I wanted to outsource sales to specialist wine merchants and sommeliers. I had no connections with any restaurants back then, but I struck lucky with some Michelin-starred restaurants who promoted me. Le Meurice, Yannick Alléno, l’Astrance, Noma, and even El Celler de Can Roca, ordered my wines by the crate! I was inspired to make a wine for an aperitif, namely Les Vignes de Montgueux, a wine without added sugar which is perfect for starting a meal. After all, we don’t start with the dessert.
Is your family proud of you?
I belong to a peasant family, so we don’t discuss that sort of thing. At the same time the village derives a certain pride from what we do, since we raise the profile of the terroir through the names of our wines.
Your favourite colour?
Red.
Your favourite grape variety?
I love the heady dimension of Chardonnay and we work it like a red in order to develop a full-bodied character. I like it when you can recognise the fruit in the wine. The grape is only exciting when it’s ripe.
Your favourite wine?
I have four children and I couldn’t choose between them; the same goes for my wines. The most significant for me, however, is the first: Les Vignes de Montgueux.
Your favourite vintage?
I don’t have one, absolutely not. My favourite vintage is always the next one.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
An amalgam of Chet Baker, Miles Davis, and John Coltrane.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
You can enjoy it on your own because we have greatly developed its multisensorial side. I have gone beyond food and wine pairing because I’m a hopeless cook. I am deeply involved with music and lucky enough to have a Pleyel piano to play on here.
Who is your strongest competition?
I don’t have any competitors, just hazards!
What is your greatest trophy?
The best thing about my job is the encounters I have with chefs, sommeliers, and wine merchants.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
There are two ways of looking at this. From an internal perspective this job is not exactly a lot of fun, it’s not the stuff of dreams. I would sooner my children look outwards, even though I hope that, at some point, one of them will take over the estate.