Owner and founder of Domaine Philippe Pacalet: “We haven’t built all this just to buy a yacht!”.
The 32nd interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series takes us on our sixth trip to Burgundy to meet Philippe Pacalet, #19, at his winery in the heart of Beaune, a jewel in the viticultural crown of the Côte-d’Or. Producing wines from around 20 hectares of Chardonnay, Aligoté, and Pinot Noir, he is a winemaker at the height of his popularity who is finally reaping the rewards of his remarkable staying power.
Understated, playful, hyperactive, and impressively knowledgeable, there is no shortage of epithets when it comes to describing Philippe Pacalet, an iconic figure in the Burgundy natural wine scene and nephew of the legendary Marcel Lapierre. True to his convictions, he faced a real obstacle course upon entering the world of wine, having to endure widespread criticism before becoming, at long last, the height of fashion.
“In the 1980s we experienced a good deal of hostility, even malice. People were simply not ready for it. I am fond of saying that we were a bit too early getting to the station. I believe that the natural wine train has eventually arrived and this time we have managed to get on board.”
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Philippe Pacalet: I am honoured that people are taking an interest in me, and that my longevity and my determination to respect and improve on the work of our predecessors are being acknowledged. I just get on with it and, in any case, I don’t know how to do anything else. I keep my feet on the ground, and I think I’m on the right track. Over the course of 30 years, some things about me have changed. Back in the day, it was a constant battle, and I couldn’t let things go. Later, I began to mature, and now it’s gratifying to be recognised by my peers.
What is your greatest source of pride?
Being able to make a good wine with lovely aromas together with my team, and the fact that this allows me to live a happy life. I have been fortunate to find something that I am good at. It was always there inside me, but someone has to make it resonate for you. In this respect, encounters with others play a major part.
Have you been training for long?
I began to train seriously when I was 21, the age of reason but also of stupidity! That said, I have been immersed in the world of wine since I was tiny.
Who is your mentor?
Marcel Lapierre, my uncle, who taught me the value of traditional “farmer’s wisdom” and love for people, Jules Chavet for the scientific side of things, Jacques Néauport for his artist’s soul, and Michel Archawski who taught me how to run a business.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, a winemaker needs support. It is important to build a team and develop its expertise, but there are still decisions that you have to make on your own. It’s a profession with a very solitary side.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
Both of them. I believe that you need sensitivity, hard work, and a bit of passion. Terroir and winemaker go together, they form a unity. They are like a couple; things are not always easy. Humans are vertical creatures, whereas the ground is horizontal. It’s a meeting of the two, and there isn’t always a right angle!
To what do you owe your success?
I owe it to always having believed in what I was doing, to having stood up for my ideals, and to having listened, at least sometimes, to my friends. Finally, I owe it to having always had the courage, in moments of uncertainty, to go back to keeping things simple.
Is your family proud of you?
Yes, they have been brave enough to point me in the right direction and they have put their faith in me.
What is your favourite colour?
It has to be red, because I have been drinking it for a long time. These days I also make rosé (at Château Malherbe, ed.) and I drink some white wine, but red is still my favourite.
Your favourite grape variety?
Pinot Noir, which can be virile, not in a macho sense of course, can have an artistic side, and can engender powerful emotions. It has an earthy quality and is packed with power, elegance, and aromas. It keeps your feet on the ground.
Your favourite vintage?
1998, which has become a great vintage late in the day.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It looks like the person who made it. Wine is a mirror which sometimes reflects mediocrity, sometimes genius.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
With people I love, sitting around a table, not necessarily with food.
Who is your strongest competition?
Doing things by rote, which is the Achilles heel of our profession.
And the competition that you dread the most?
There isn’t one. What I find most stressful is the bureaucratic red tape which infuriates me.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
It’s not for sale so it doesn’t have a price.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
My children. My son, who is 30, already works with me, and will take over the estate, probably with his sister. We haven’t built all this just to buy a yacht!
Winemaker of his legendary family estate in Champagne: “There is always a lot expected of the younger generation”.
For the 31st interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series we pay our sixth visit to Champagne to meet Guillaume Selosse, #20, who is now at the helm of one of the region’s most sought-after estates. A model of discretion, he makes uniquely thrilling wines whose ratings continue to soar.
Domaine Jacques Selosse, founded by Guillaume’s grandfather, is situated in Avize, a small village in the Côte de Blancs. Known long ago as Ozannel-la-belle, Avize has been renowned since the 18th century for its well-balanced Blancs de Blancs champagnes, classified Grand Cru. Jacques Selosse settled here shortly after the Second World War in 1947 and, despite not coming from a family of winemakers, soon acquired some vines. In 1949 Jacques and his wife founded the estate that still bears his name, and the couple made their own wine for the first time in 1964. Ten years later their son, Anselme, joined the estate and embarked on an extended exploration of the methods and practices of viticulture and vinification. His never-ending quest for perfection lasted throughout his career. From 1990 to 1996 he applied the principles of organic farming, then graduated to a biodynamic approach. But from 2002 he distanced himself from the established norms of biodynamic doctrine, taking the view that we should not impose on nature. Over the last few years Anselme’s son, Guillaume, representing the third generation, has taken up the reins with verve.
Paradoxically, it was in Bordeaux that this new star of the Champagne winemaking galaxy experienced his true epiphany, while studying viticulture and oenology in Saint-Émilion. This was a carefully considered sideways step, which enabled Guillaume to meet young prospective winemakers from all around the world. It gave him a very different take on things than he could have acquired had he simply stayed on his home terroir. From his earliest childhood, the paternal reputation of the highly respected Anselme Selosse had cast a long shadow over the young Guillaume, who next decided to spend a year in Australia in order to come back to the estate much better equipped to forge his own path. From his very first vintages, by dint of close observation and sheer hard work, Guillaume has stamped his personality on the estate, and today he produces champagnes of incomparable vivacity.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Guillaume Selosse: I don’t really see myself as a champion. One of the current struggles facing winemakers consists precisely in keeping a cool head. It is vital we always remember that wine is about shared values, not market values. We have to resist this focus on the market, even if we are, fortunately, starting to see it reach its limits, especially in Burgundy. The price curves are beginning to come down; it was getting to be obscene. The world of wine is changing now that, I believe, we have reached a tipping point.
What is your greatest source of pride?
My own cuvée Largillier, which I made without paternal support. I made it on my own, my father never entered the cellar, and his first taste of it was from the bottle. It is the first wine that I made entirely on my own.
Have you been training for long?
As a young boy, I used to run around in the cellar, climbing on the barrels, and spending Sundays with my father, who would tell me: “Smell the wine, open the valve”, and so on. I have always been in a winemaking environment.
Who is your mentor?
At the technical level, my father, because I am always picking his brain, and it’s with him that I have developed my awareness of all the factors that come into play. However, I have also gained insights from winemakers during my internships, especially from Benoît Lahaye (selected as winemaker of the year for 2021 by le Gault & Millau, ed.). But basically, it’s my father.
Is wine a team sport?
A winemaker is a conductor: you need a team that can follow your tune, otherwise, it doesn’t work. There has to be a symbiosis. We have a team of five working full time between the vineyard and in the cellar, plus two in the office, as well as my father and me.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
I think that the terroir is necessarily key, but the decisions taken during the growing season count for a lot. This is especially true for making white wine, where it all happens in the vineyard, through our decisions about pruning, disbudding, yields, and harvests. With red wines, it is easier to have an impact during vinification, but with whites, it’s much trickier.
To what do you owe your success?
To my approach to tasting wines, to my never getting fixated on a particular region or grape variety, and to my going to meet with winemakers everywhere in France and in Europe. Exchanging ideas and discussing things is crucial, including with winemakers facing very different challenges from ours. The climate is changing so much that in the future even producers of Côtes-du-Rhône could become a source of inspiration. For example, my father once took part in the grape harvests in the south, and the things he learned there were of invaluable help with the 2003 vintage.
Is your family proud of you?
I hope so, I do everything I can to make them proud of me. There is always a lot expected of the younger generation.
Your favourite colour?
Right now my most wonderful surprises come from reds, from Burgundian reds in particular.
Your hero among grape varieties?
Chardonnay.
Your favourite wine?
My favourite, for all seasons and every stage of a meal, is Les Carelles. It’s a wine that perfectly expresses where it comes from, with a slightly roasted side, which gives it a Burgundian edge.
Your favourite vintage?
2009, for which I had a role both in the harvests and in the vinifications. If 2008 is still a work in progress, 2009 is honest, regal, always transparent, and full of joy.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
Curiously, I find it has an electric side to it, it’s off the beaten track, like a character on the fringes of society.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
Surrounded by friends and family, with bites of Parmesan, setting things up for a wonderful night.
Who is your strongest competition?
The climate, including recurring spring frosts, as well as significant issues with water.
And the competition that you dread the most?
The process of bottling. As far as the harvest is concerned, we have made our decisions and we stick to them. In the cellar, we have to set up the fermentation process, achieve a certain specific gravity, and so on. It’s incredibly tricky to get it right and it’s the culmination of our entire year’s work, which makes it particularly stressful.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
I have such an emotional attachment to it that I would never want to sell it.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
My children, Tara and Lazare, who are still very young. When it comes down to it, it will be whoever is the most passionate about it and doesn’t see it as something they are pressured into doing. I get that from my father, who never put pressure on me.
Managing Director and winemaker of Château Pichon Comtesse in Pauillac: “My wine is like Kate Bush”.
The 30th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series takes us back to Bordeaux, to Pauillac, where Nicolas Glumineau, #21, creates exquisite wines with added soul. His answers reveal his insights into a winemaking profession that he has pursued for 20 years.
The vineyards of Château Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande stretch out across 102 hectares in the heart of the Pauillac appellation, close to Premier Grand Cru Château Latour. The vines have an average age of 35 years and stand on terroir comprised of fine Garonne gravel on a clay subsoil. These vines are made up of a combination of grape varieties, currently in transition, that will shortly consist of 75% Cabernet Sauvignon supplemented by Merlot and Cabernet Franc. The Rouzaud family – of Louis Roederer Champagnes – took over Pichon Comtesse in 2007, ensuring that the vision of those predecessors, who had created these wines over many decades, would be sustained. At the helm since 2012, Nicolas Glumineau is a man whose fascinating career path has made him an expert in high-precision blending, alongside his qualities of humility and humour. Every year he vinifies this exceptional Deuxième Grand Cru Classé with considerable panache.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Nicolas Glumineau: I am certainly not a champion. I am a challenger, on behalf of myself, of Pichon, of the world of wine both here in Bordeaux and globally. I sincerely hope that 2022 doesn’t turn out to be the vintage of the century because we still have 78 vintages to go!
Have you been training for long?
For 20 years. My first vinification was at Château d’Escurac, with Jean-Marc Landureau (in the Médoc Appellation, ed.). Before that I wasn’t involved in the world of wine. I studied genetics and biochemistry at the University of Bordeaux, where I worked in Denis Dubourdieu’s laboratory and played around with Sauvignon Blanc wine yeasts, creating hybrids. That gave me the opportunity to develop a rigorous scientific approach and to practise experimentation.
Who is your mentor?
I have a number of them. First and foremost come my teams, because they help me to ask myself the right questions and to delve ever further into the meaning of wine and the work that we want to accomplish. Éric Boissenot is also a mentor: he has an extraordinary palate and is a man of great humility with a tremendous amount of knowledge. Jean-Baptiste Lécaillon and Frédéric Rouzaud (respectively Cellar Master and CEO of Maison Louis Roederer, which owns Pichon Comtesse, ed.) provide us with a framework that allows us a great deal of freedom, as well as some thought-provoking perspectives which help us keep improving.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
Terroir is a very French concept, with several different elements: the soil, the subsoil, the microclimate, the grape variety, the rootstock, and the human contribution, which come together as a unity that we call the terroir. So what is key here is the terroir, in all its complexity. Nature provides us with a score and our job is simply to interpret it.
To what do you owe your success?
To my wife and to my encounters with some very inspiring wines. And then a little work has also had a part to play!
Is your wife proud of you?
I hope so.
Who is your biggest supporter?
There are two of them. The first comprises the wine-lovers and the markets who are loyal to us. The second is Frédéric Rouzaud, who has invested a great deal in this property. Over and above his financial investment, he appreciates the time and energy required to implement a long-term strategy, and viticulture is always a long-term project. Time is a necessary luxury because it allows us to experiment, to understand, and to make the wine that we want to make.
Your favourite colour?
Fifty shades of green in the forest. When it comes to wine my favourite colour depends on what we are eating.
Your hero among grape varieties?
Cabernet Sauvignon. I find it has the completeness, all the aspects and subtleties that I look for when tasting a wine, the elegance and intensity in particular. While I also find these subtleties in other grape varieties, in my view Cabernet Sauvignon expresses them best. We have undertaken a huge re-planting job at Pichon Comtesse, which has involved increasing the proportion of Cabernet Sauvignon from 60% to 75%, at the expense of Merlot and Petit Verdot. When we have finished we will have around 75% Cabernet Sauvignon, between 15% and 20% Merlot, and some Cabernet Franc. That corresponds to what we have used in our blends over the last few years.
Your favourite wine?
I am very fond of a Diamond Creek label called Red Rock Terrace. It is a Napa wine, made from Cabernet Sauvignon and grown on a north-facing plot, which always has loads of style and elegance, and is serious without being too austere. It has a truly superb balance. I recommend the 2006.
Your favourite vintage?
In Bordeaux, 1989. And at Pichon, 2022 and 1989.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
My wine is like Kate Bush because I find her elegant, powerful, sinuous, poetic, and unique.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
Listening to music, in an isolated cabin, together with friends. We have made a playlist for our website with pieces of music for each vintage, whether jazz, rock, or classical. When tasting our 1989 I would listen to The Cure’s ‘Prayers for Rain’. It was a very dry year, so the song was a perfect counterpart.
And without friends?
You can enjoy it on your own, in a good leather armchair, with a decent hi-fi system, and most importantly, nothing else, no one else around, to ensure you can savour it undisturbed.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
My wine never but myself yes, with Mersault from Domaine Jean-François Coche-Dury!
Who is your strongest competition in Pauillac?
Force of habit. Viticulture today, even more than in the past, requires us to adapt, in the vineyard and in the cellar. That means constantly questioning what we are doing, being ready to experiment, and showing good judgment. Even when we are happy with the wine we have just produced we need to reflect on what we’ve done and ask if we could have done it better still. You can be very respectful of tradition, but that doesn’t mean simply sticking to tried and tested ways. You have to observe nature, remain very humble, and always think about how to improve and evolve. In Pauillac itself we don’t go in for competition so much as emulation. The most formidable rivals are the ones who are better than us. I have a great deal of respect for the way they work with their vines at Château Latour. We have plenty of things in common, including biodynamic and organic farming. And Château Lafite Rothschild has made some tremendous wines over recent vintages, 2022 and 2018 in particular.
And the competition that you dread the most?
My greatest fear today is that climate change gets even worse. That’s the real competition. Competition in the form of trying to match our rivals is really positive, it pushes us to do even better, but there is room for everyone. On the other hand, climate change means we have to work ever harder, and push the dial on our experiments ever further. I am afraid of the serious effect that climate change might have on the kind of wine that we can make in Pauillac. 2022 will be remembered as an extraordinary vintage, absolutely massive, which is a great thing. I love it because the Pichon Comtesse we made corresponds precisely to what we have wanted to make for years, in terms of balance, power, elegance, complexity, body, and sensuality. We also love it because we were the first to be surprised that the wine was so good. That means we were not in complete control. I will never forget how challenging we found it. We had to change how we did things almost every day. Just because 2022 is a great vintage doesn’t mean it was easy to make. But it’s a source of real joy, and that’s what makes every vintage different.
What is your greatest source of pride?
My children. And also my national first aid certificate!
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
Socrates said: “All I know is that I know nothing.” Questioning everything is always the best strategy when it comes to tempering empiricism with an admixture of technology. Experimentation is always my best innovation and frequently results in less interference with the terroir. “Less is more” as they say. A good example is replacing tillage, which requires a lot of time and effort, with grass and plant cover. It’s a case of working the soil less in order to make it drain better and make it more alive. We realised that the less we worked the soil, the better it was for the vines. Working with biodynamics for the past 12 years has led us to revisit a number of established agricultural practices. In the final analysis you get higher quality production from a living soil, and when you have ripe grapes there is less need for extraction during vinification, because the balance of juice and wine is already there from the start. It is there in the fruit.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
My successor will be ranked higher than I am, so I have two: Jean-Baptiste Lécaillon and Jean-Philippe Masclef, technical director of Haut Brion.
Owners and winemakers of their family estate in Roussillon: “In their finesse and their personality our wines are like women”.
For the 28th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series we pay our first visit to Roussillon to meet the Danjou brothers, Benoît and Sébastien, #24. Domaine Danjou-Banessy, in Espira-de-l’Agly, is poetically situated between the precipitous slopes of the Pyrenees and the foothills of the Corbières. The estate is home to several generations of vines between 15 and 120 years old, spread over a mosaic of soils that put the Climats of Burgundy in the shade.
This is a family history that has skipped a generation. Artisans and farmers in their souls, Benoît and Sébastien Danjou joined forces to take over their grandfather’s 32 hectares of vines, surrounded by 20 hectares of woodland, forest, and moor. As Sébastien made clear, although their grandfather had always treated the land and nature with respect, “the estate was showing signs of serious neglect”. For all the charm of its hundred-year-old vines, their productivity had steadily declined. “We have kept the old vines in good condition,” added Sébastien, “while cutting out all forms of aggressive intervention”. Now certified organic, and cultivating an area reduced to 20 hectares, the two brothers produce magnificent Grenaches, Carignans, Muscats, and other southern grape varieties, and remain unwavering in their refusal to rest on their laurels. They are two of the most talented winemakers in Roussillon.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Sébastien and Benoît Danjou: We are delighted, but being champions is not core to our philosophy. We don’t want to be famous, we just want recognition, above all from our peers. We are not looking to make the best wine in the world.
What is your greatest source of pride?
To have managed to carry on working in the simplest way possible, with the mindset of artisans and peasants. The latter were looked down on, unjustifiably, and we are determined to stick with this approach, working exclusively with what we produce on the estate, without buying any grapes in.
Have you been training for long?
Since childhood. We haven’t had any academic training. And we know that an entire lifetime of training isn’t enough – there is always something new to learn.
Who is your mentor?
Surprisingly we have never had one. We spent ten years overhauling a family estate and never had the time to check out what was going on around us, either locally or further afield. Without a mentor, we had to learn from our mistakes. Since we became established we have opened our minds through a number of visits to estates where we have found common ground or, conversely, fundamental differences in approach.
Is wine a team sport?
Absolutely. Our team is very small but essential.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
The terroir, without any reservation, and we try to express it as precisely as we can.
To what do you owe your success?
To numerous encounters which have helped spread the word about our wines. We are regularly classified in the natural wine category, although we don’t claim any affiliation. We do feel a connection to it, but it’s become a kind of compartment, with an increasingly fuzzy definition, in which we feel less and less at home. It’s true that natural wines are proliferating, and that’s a good thing, but plenty end up down the drain!
Is your family proud of you?
Yes, although none of them would ever say so.
Your favourite colour?
Let’s say not too white, as that suggests the need for clarification, and not too red, as that indicates excessive extraction.
Your favourite grape variety?
Carignan, which is a grape variety for the future and one that has been widely disparaged for its rusticity. It has just been poorly understood. Carignan is a late variety, well-adapted to climate change. We would agree that it is hardy, from a physiological perspective, but it has a lovely acidity. It’s the Roussillon grape variety that deserves wider recognition, whether as Carignan Blanc, Gris, or Noir.
Your favourite wine?
For me (Sébastien, ed.) it’s Estaca, and for my brother Espurna. We are deeply attached to all our wines, but these two are made from very old vines and we feel indebted to those who worked them before us. They have been through more than 100 prunings and we are full of admiration and respect for their longevity.
Your favourite vintage?
2020, a really complete vintage.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
We hope that our wine resembles Roussillon, and we are always saying that in their finesse and their personality, our wines are like women. They don’t parade their muscles; they aren’t show animals with broad shoulders!
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
In company, in any number of situations. A friend likes to tell us that there are no great wines, just great bottles. A bottle is always the coming together of a time, a place, and people, whether previously acquainted or not.
Who is your strongest competition?
This year we have had quite a struggle with the climate, but we have a great deal of respect for it.
Which competition do you fear the most?
We have some problems with water, especially in the summer of course, but no particular time is really more testing than others. Here in the south we are not afraid of summer drought.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
We couldn’t put a price on it. We appreciate, nevertheless, that vineyards are subject to major speculation. However, that is not such a bad thing since it’s reassuring to know that our work has a tangible value, even if the speculation sometimes verges on the ridiculous.
What is your greatest trophy?
We still have plenty of room to improve. We are satisfied but never complacent. That’s what drives us on a daily basis.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
We would be happy for our children to take over, but they are still young. This job is a true vocation, and we are not going to push them. We would like them to share the same values. Passing the baton is something fundamental and we won’t indulge in hypotheticals. Winegrowing is transgenerational and we have to accept that each generation will have a different way of doing things, but we would like to hand the estate on to people who have truly understood our work.
Actor and winemaker of his renowned family estate in Meursault: “Mersault was always on my mind”.
For the 27th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series we head back to Burgundy to meet Jean-Marc Roulot, #24. As both an actor and a leading figure in the vineyards of Meursault he defies categorisation. His sensitivity and intelligence shone through our meeting.
Both his grandfathers were winemakers in Meursault, and Jean-Marc Roulot has always been immersed in the world of wine. But if his DNA led him to undertake a vocational training course in viticulture and oenology in Beaune, he later changed direction to pursue an artistic career. “I dreamt of nothing but the theatre, I was always at the cinema, but I kept it to myself,” he confides. “After a couple of years working with my father, I told my parents that I wanted to be an actor”. So he moved to Paris without a penny to his name, enrolled at the Conservatoire d’Art Dramatique in 1980, when he was 24, and embarked on three years of study which allowed him to rub shoulders with the biggest names in theatre at the time, all the while “reassuring his parents”.
In 1982, when he was still a student in Paris, his father died following an illness. The estate was then managed by the American, Ted Lemon, who arrived in January 1983, followed by Jean-Marc’s cousin, Franck Grux, who left in 1988 to pursue his career with Olivier Leflaive. The following year Jean-Marc returned to take over the vineyard, but without giving up his acting career.
“Meursault was always on my mind, and when my cousin left I had to make a decision. I had a deep attachment to the estate; I wanted it to carry on and I wanted the wine to be good. At the age of 30 I finally appreciated what it stood for. I came back on one condition: that I would continue to be an actor.” Today, along with his sister, Jean-Marc Roulot embodies the sixth generation of an iconic Burgundy family, co-ordinating his responsibilities as a winemaker and distiller, while still allowing himself to act in the occasional film. Graced with an exceptional humility, he quietly concludes: “Theatre helped me understand that I could also put something of myself into a wine”.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Jean-Marc Roulot: I am happy that my wines and the work of the estate team have received this recognition. It’s great, but I don’t want to wallow in it. I am constantly challenging how we do things; we can never afford to stand still. And, when I look at the world of wine today with its crazy prices, I remind myself that I am also an actor looking for work, and that calms me down!
What is your greatest source of pride?
My team!
Have you been training for long?
Yes, I have always been immersed in it, alongside my father. That was part of our family life, it’s how we were brought up back then.
Who is your mentor?
I could mention Hubert de Montille, my former father-in-law, who taught me a lot and was hugely supportive. There are also certain wines that have profoundly affected me, such as François Jobard’s Meursault Premier Grand Cru Genevrières 1973.
Is wine a team sport?
Yes, absolutely.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
It is the combination of the two that is interesting. The terroir is like a screenplay: if you give the same screenplay to two directors they are not going to make the same film.
To what do you owe your success?
To the work of my parents, as well as to my ten years in the theatre, and more specifically to my teachers, Jacques Lassalle and Michel Bouquet, who taught me the importance of attention to detail.
Is your family proud of you?
You would have to ask them. My eldest son puts a lot of pressure on himself. He will write a new chapter in his own image. An estate is an instrument that we pass on, not something immutable.
Your favourite colour?
Blue.
Your favourite grape variety?
Pinot Noir. It is so expressive that I find it moving.
Your favourite wine?
Les Luchets, because it was the village Meursaults that first established the estate’s reputation. There are also emotional and family reasons behind my choice.
Your favourite vintage?
- It is a truly great vintage for whites and the year that my eldest son was born. Nature was on our side.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
I would love my wines to have the grace of a Max Ophüls’ film.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
I like to be focused and somewhere intimate with my family or my friends, in the late morning or late afternoon. I also like drinking when we hold the Paulée (the celebratory lunch held at the end of the grape harvest in Meursault, ed.), where it requires a real effort to concentrate. Remember, not everything is just given away in the glass, we have to put in the effort.
Who is your strongest competition?
Myself, because I don’t know when to stop. Still, we have to focus on what we’ve got.
What is your greatest trophy?
I am not a great collector of medals, but let’s say my certificate for climbing Mont-Blanc!
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
A wine fanatic, capable of learning from the past but without feeling pressured or bound by it, who would not be influenced by the latest trends, and who would simply want to make the wines that he or she wishes to drink, freely, with love and an open heart.
Winemaker of this cult grower Champagne in Montgueux: “I don’t have any competitors, just hazards!”.
The 26th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series takes us to the Aube where Emmanuel Lassaigne, #25, creates some of the purest champagnes in the region at the helm of his family estate. Here he reveals the unconventional approach that has made him one of the favourite Champagne winemakers at the finest tables in the world.
Situated in Montgueux near Troyes, the Jacques Lassaigne estate, comprising 4.7 hectares, was established in 1964. Often compared to the terroir of Montrachet in Burgundy, Montgueux lies at the northern edge of the Côte des Bar, enjoying cool climatic conditions on a limestone hillside which overlooks the Seine Valley. Emmanuel Lassaigne took over in 1999, converting to organic and biodynamic cultivation. While Pinot Noir is typically planted in this region, Emmanuel Lassaigne marches to a different tune, seeking to produce distinctive Blanc de Blancs champagnes by means of vinifying partly in barrels, disgorging entirely by hand without ice, and eschewing the addition of any sulphur or sugar. This rigorous approach produces perfect champagnes for high-end gastronomy, highly sought after by top sommeliers.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Emmanuel Lassaigne: I played a lot of sport and I dreamt of being a champion: it’s a belated reward!
Have you been training for long?
Yes. When you are a winemaker you work on a solitary piece of land. If you think about it, it’s not much of a playing field. So I create ephemeral wines, always following the same approach, and I make between five and eight different cuvées every year, in sherry barrels, port barrels…so I have done a lot of training, and every vintage is different, with its own unique characteristics.
Who is your mentor?
We are fortunate in having Aux Crieurs de vin (iconic restaurant and natural wine bar in Troyes, ed.), which played a significant part in my initiation into the world of artisan natural wine. I should also mention my encounters with winemakers from the school of Lapierre (Marcel Lapierre, of Domaine Marcel Lapierre in Beaujolais, who was a pioneer in the field of organic cultivation, ed.), which have had a key role in my development.
Is wine a team sport?
We are a team in some respects, yes, but when it comes to winemaking I am on my own. I need to decide things for myself, not as part of a committee.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
The terroir. But we should put this in perspective, because not everyone shares the same taste. I think we make the wines that we like to drink ourselves and, in that sense, we are led by our personal preference. Here, we deal in small volumes and don’t have the weight of history on our shoulders. The chef de cave of a great house is a conductor who has to follow a musical score. Me, I’m a jazzman!
To what do you owe your success?
To some pivotal encounters. When I took over my parents sold our entire production directly from the estate. I wanted to outsource sales to specialist wine merchants and sommeliers. I had no connections with any restaurants back then, but I struck lucky with some Michelin-starred restaurants who promoted me. Le Meurice, Yannick Alléno, l’Astrance, Noma, and even El Celler de Can Roca, ordered my wines by the crate! I was inspired to make a wine for an aperitif, namely Les Vignes de Montgueux, a wine without added sugar which is perfect for starting a meal. After all, we don’t start with the dessert.
Is your family proud of you?
I belong to a peasant family, so we don’t discuss that sort of thing. At the same time the village derives a certain pride from what we do, since we raise the profile of the terroir through the names of our wines.
Your favourite colour?
Red.
Your favourite grape variety?
I love the heady dimension of Chardonnay and we work it like a red in order to develop a full-bodied character. I like it when you can recognise the fruit in the wine. The grape is only exciting when it’s ripe.
Your favourite wine?
I have four children and I couldn’t choose between them; the same goes for my wines. The most significant for me, however, is the first: Les Vignes de Montgueux.
Your favourite vintage?
I don’t have one, absolutely not. My favourite vintage is always the next one.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
An amalgam of Chet Baker, Miles Davis, and John Coltrane.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
You can enjoy it on your own because we have greatly developed its multisensorial side. I have gone beyond food and wine pairing because I’m a hopeless cook. I am deeply involved with music and lucky enough to have a Pleyel piano to play on here.
Who is your strongest competition?
I don’t have any competitors, just hazards!
What is your greatest trophy?
The best thing about my job is the encounters I have with chefs, sommeliers, and wine merchants.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
There are two ways of looking at this. From an internal perspective this job is not exactly a lot of fun, it’s not the stuff of dreams. I would sooner my children look outwards, even though I hope that, at some point, one of them will take over the estate.
Co-owner and winemaker of his Saint-Émilion estate: “Wine is such a complex and sophisticated product that you cannot just reduce it to a comment”.
For the 25th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series we stay in Bordeaux to meet Édouard Moueix, #26, third generation winemaker of the renowned Moueix family and co-owner, with his father Christian, of Château Bélair-Monange in Saint-Émilion and Château La Fleur-Pétrus in Pomerol. Here he shares his insight into the profession that inspires him.
Édouard Moueix is the grandson of the legendary Jean-Pierre Moueix, who spotted the potential of the Pomerol appellation before it became famous and began to acquire estates there from 1950 on. It all started with Château La Fleur-Pétrus, followed by Château Trotanoy in 1953, with Château Magdelaine, in neighbouring Saint-Émilion, picked up in 1952. The highlight, of course, would be the acquisition of Petrus. Édouard’s father, Christian Moueix, was responsible for 38 vintages of Petrus before the estate was inherited by his brother; today Petrus is managed by Édouard’s cousin. At the same time as running Petrus, Christian extended the family’s holdings, not least through the acquisition of Château Hosanna in Pomerol in 1999.
Hard-working, dedicated, and tenacious, Édouard embodies the third generation of the lineage, working alongside his father since 2003. Deeply in love with his vocation, Édouard acquired Château Bélair with his father in 2008, and played a key part in the merger of Château Bélair and Château Magdelaine, thereby creating Château Bélair-Monange, Premier Grand Cru Classé B, where he now lives with his wife and two children. This June, Édouard and his father unveiled an imposing new cellar, a major construction project designed by the renowned architects, Jacques Herzog and Pierre de Meuron.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Edouard Moueix: I certainly don’t think of myself as a champion. Instead, I see myself more as the trainer of wines that will, one day, become great champions themselves.
Have you been training for long?
In a family business like ours, education and vocational training are pretty much the same thing. Without being aware of it, I have been training since my earliest childhood, apart from a few inevitable breaks which, in turn, enabled me to return to the profession with all the more passion.
Who is your mentor?
My grandparents and my parents, and more specifically my father with whom I work every day. Then there are all our other colleagues as well: we don’t take decisions before reaching agreement with our team.
Is wine a team sport?
It goes without saying. I see myself as the team captain, not as the coach. We support each other on the field, we play as a team, and we overcome the challenges that confront us by sticking together.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
They are completely inseparable. The key thing is to strive for excellence at every stage. If I must choose between the two, I would say that you need a great terroir to make a good wine, but to get the best out of it you need good winemakers.
To what do you owe your success?
In my view there is no such thing as success in our profession because you have to start afresh with every vintage and the rules of the game change every year, even during the year. You need a steely resilience, which is a winemaker’s primary attribute. Rather than talk of success in the sense of “winning the cup” at the end of a tournament, I prefer to focus on recognition for the product and the work. Success is bringing home a vintage. If a winemaker starts thinking he has succeeded, he is on the brink of retirement!
Is your family proud of you?
I know that my children are proud of me. I hope that my wife is proud of me. As for my father, we seldom talk about our feelings. What matters is a job well done.
Who is your biggest supporter?
Nature. There are times when that doesn’t work out, but nature is the only certainty we have.
Your favourite colour?
Red, because I am immersed in this world which captivates me. Otherwise it’s blue, which represents both a sunny sky and rain – and thus our daily lives.
Your favourite grape variety?
It has to be Merlot. It is delicate and requires a lot of attention, but its main attribute is generosity, and that is what I look for in wines.
Your favourite wine?
The one we are working on right now and for which, on a daily basis, we put all our passion on the line. So it’s 2023 and, if I have to pick out a single wine, Bélair-Monange.
Your favourite vintage?
To date, 2010, because it combines power and generosity with exceptional ageing potential.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It is like our imaginary ideal, even though we may sometimes be a little disappointed.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
Whenever the mood takes you. At any time of the day or night, alone or in the company of people who appreciate and understand what the wine has to offer. Wine is for the benefit of the consumer.
Have you ever thought about chemically enhancing yourself, or your wine?
No, because that just provides an instant and short-lived effect, whereas we are working for the long term.
For what price would you be prepared to sell your estate?
There would have to be a compelling reason to sell a family estate and, thus far, I haven’t encountered one. Only the other day I asked my son, Pierre-Henri, who is 11, what he would like to do when he grows up, and he replied: “At first I want to be a sports coach, and then I want to be a winemaker.”
Who is your strongest competition?
My strongest competition is also my best friend, namely the climate. It is a friend to the extent of its generosity.
Which competition do you dread the most?
I worry most of all about the simplification of communications, which is unavoidable these days because of social networks and the like. Wine is such a complex and sophisticated product that you cannot just reduce it to a comment, or a photo, or a rating.
What is your greatest source of pride?
That we have managed to bring Bélair-Monange to the level it enjoys today, while overcoming all the challenges we faced, such as the quarry which was on the brink of collapse when we arrived here. And we took a bold gamble when we went ahead and merged the two vineyards of Magdelaine and Bélair. More recently, there is the construction of our new cellar which, I hope, will provide the ideal setting for us to produce the finest possible wines. Finally, more broadly, there is our high level of consumer confidence: it is the greatest trophy we could have hoped to win.
What has been your most innovative strategy in the vineyard and in the cellar?
We have ever more innovations at our disposal, and we need to be able to use them without losing our innate peasant nous and, above all, our patience. Here at Bélair-Monange we have performed the labours of Hercules in a very short time, albeit a very short time that has taken 15 years! We have to give nature the time to adapt and to express itself.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
A member of my family. Were it to be the next in line purely on merit, I would suggest Boris Champy, our former oenologist at Dominus (a Moueix family estate in the Napa Valley, ed.). He took on a major challenge, building up his vineyard in Burgundy pretty much from scratch. He has an innovative approach, taking a gamble on the climate. I think he deserves our very close attention.
Owner and winemaker of his renowned family estate in Saint-Julien: “Our work is closer to rugby than to any other sport”.
The 24th interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series brings us back to Bordeaux to meet Bruno Borie, #27. As owner and team captain of Château Ducru-Beaucaillou, Deuxième Grand Cru Classé de Saint-Julien, he has been picking up exceptional critics’ scores for the past 20 years.
The history of this iconic Saint-Julien property goes back to the 17th century. In 1795, one Bernard Ducru set his heart on the estate, and it was he who added his family name to that of Beaucaillou, which derives its name from its terroir; a terroir made up of gravel dating from the Quaternary ice age, washed up by the rivers that flow into the Gironde estuary. Ranked as a second growth by the official Napoleonic classification of 1855, Ducru-Beaucaillou was acquired by the Borie family in 1941. Today, with a range of five different wines, the Château, led by Bruno Borie, enjoys a global following and a strong position in the rankings of the best 100 wines in the world. Next year Ducru-Beaucaillou is due to open a new cellar of 8,000 square metres.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Bruno Borie: It’s a pleasant surprise for me but also for our team here at Ducru-Beaucaillou. It means something for our vineyards. I have a whole team around me, and they are kind enough to follow me, to support me in my dreams, or rather our dreams, since we live them together. It is a motivation to carry on, to push even further.
Have you been training for long?
I believe that estates like Château Ducru-Beaucaillou were conceived from the outset with the notion of creating the best wines in the world. “Everything has to change for everything to stay the same,” as Giuseppe Tomasi di Lampedusa wrote in The Leopard. For our part, we can trace our winemaking roots back to 1720. These origins are evidenced by a marriage contract, but if there was a marriage contract that included the vineyard and the house as dowry, then it must follow that they were already in existence. So we believe that our roots go back at least as far as the end of the 17th century. And there has always been this desire to do things correctly, to excel. 1720 takes us back to the time of Montesquieu, who went off to sell his wine in England.
So that makes three centuries of training?
I am the beneficiary of the training of all my predecessors, and we continue to run along the same lines. What has really astonished me, in delving into our history, is that we have always been asking ourselves the same questions. To pick up on the sporting analogy, when we watched Toulouse and La Rochelle play that magnificent final, we could see that rugby has changed but also that it hasn’t changed. True, the players are more athletic, more muscular, and more powerful than ever but, at the same time, the spirit remains the same. There is a good case for saying that our work is closer to rugby than to any other sport.
Who has been your best mentor?
I am passionate about, captivated by the work and the achievements of Léa Vicens, who is the greatest female bullfighter of all time. She is a young woman who, purely through sheer hard work, purely through her will, her ambition, and her personal strength, has got to that level. She is an inspiration. Indeed, what do you do when you fall off your horse? You have to get back on it and back into the fight. There is another mentor that I have never had the chance to meet, namely the chef Guy Savoy, a former rugby player. When he lost a Michelin star, he took it on the chin and two days later he gathered his team around him and said: “We are going to go again. We are going to sort out what wasn’t working and rebuild our whole process from scratch. We are going to remotivate ourselves and search for the inner strength to win back what we have lost.” Those are great examples to follow since we are all, in a way, engaged in a form of sport.
Is wine a team sport?
I certainly think so.
And what is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the human being?
The terroir, which we might also describe as an ecosystem. I, personally, favour the concept of the ecosystem because “terroir” is perhaps not always fully understood. The ecosystem is not only the geography, geology, climatology, and all the elements that we consider part of it…it is also the human being and his capacity to influence and enhance the ecosystem, his capacity to support nature. All that is encapsulated in a holistic approach. It is a comprehensive project in which man plays an integral part.
To what do you owe your success and the success of Chateau Ducru-Beaucaillou?
I owe it both to all those who have gone before me and to all those who support me now. But my predecessors count for a lot.
Who are your biggest supporters?
We do have some, but that’s possibly where I most need to focus. We have people who understand us, who support us, and who are very loyal. But supporters in the sense of sponsors are necessarily the people who distribute and promote our wine. Admittedly we were very flattered, just the other day, to host the world’s best sommelier along with other truly remarkable sommeliers. I think that my 20thanniversary here, together with the 21st vintage I will have overseen, gives us the opportunity to make a big splash and attract other sponsors.
Your favourite colour?
It has to be the imperial yellow of Beaucaillou. It is beautiful because it has so many stories to tell. The historian Michel Pastoureau takes a very dim view of yellow, because for him it evokes the yellow star and the yellow gown of Judas. But for me there are other yellows that spring to mind. Yellow is for the postal service; it represents communication with the world. Yellow is the colour of the Orient, the colour of the Chinese Emperor, and it carries you into the mysteries of China. Yellow is magnificent and it’s my favourite colour.
And your favourite vintage?
It’s really hard to pick my favourite vintage because I am torn between my first and my latest, 2003 and 2022. That is fortuitous because they are both great vintages. 2003 was nevertheless a wine produced in tricky conditions, which heralded climate change. It provided a testing bed and the opportunity for me to assert my own ideas in respect of practices such as leaf stripping the vines. 20 years later I feel completely vindicated by the results, because the vines have stayed healthy and fresh. We have made a huge amount of progress since then. The 2003 is a lovely bottle of wine and, on top of that, it was the year that I met my wife. That makes two good reasons to choose it!
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
It is matched to its time. The 2010 brings to mind the very academic beauty of Charlize Theron. Whereas the 2022 strikes me as glamorous with a classical touch. For me it evokes the image of a voluminous red dress descending a staircase.
Winemaker of his family-owned Champagne House in Urville: “At Drappier wine is a family sport”.
For the 23rd interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series we pay a fourth visit to Champagne to meet Hugo Drappier, #28. Son of Michel Drappier, and grandson of André Drappier, it is now his turn to create the family wines at their estate in Urville, which lies at the southernmost edge of the Champagne region. In that neck of the woods, despite their global success, they keep their feet firmly on the ground.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Hugo Drappier: I’ll just have to take it on the chin! I wasn’t expecting that at all! That’s really nice. The whole family has put in a lot of work over recent years. We can see the results in the desirability of our wines. It was hard to believe at first. We had to figure out why what we were doing worked. Hopefully we can sustain it over time, and our wines will continue to please the customer base of wine lovers that we have managed to build up over the past few decades. As for now, we still have work to do in terms of the quality of our wines, since we are not always 100% satisfied, so we will go all out to ensure that our wines continue to improve.
Have you been training for long?
Yes, and I think that the training is far from over. There is still a great deal of work to be done to get to where we would like to be every year. We have some challenges to deal with, like global warming and natural disasters. We plan to upgrade our cellars to help keep our wines over the long term. Getting to grips with global warming is one of the generational challenges that will affect us for the next twenty years. We are only seeing the start of it, and we know that it’s going to intensify. We are going to have to reinvent ourselves.
Who is your favourite mentor?
I cannot give you just one name. I have, in the natural course of things, encountered quite a few people who have knowingly and unknowingly influenced my choices and provided guidance in tasting. We all have our favourite styles of wine in Champagne, in France, and even internationally. Every wine I have tasted that has resonated with me has subconsciously exerted some small influence over my technical choices and over the style of the wines that I make. It is difficult to answer this question, although obviously my father has a big influence on me now. Plenty of others have also brought a little something to the table.
If you had to name names?
There are, of course, wines that we really enjoy and that we drink as a family. I could name the Amoreau family in the Bordeaux region. And then there are good friends of mine, winemakers in Burgundy who also work with Pinot, even though we make different kinds of wine. I am very close to the Richoux family in Irancy. Despite the contrast in our winemaking approaches our terroirs are very similar and we have many shared values which inspires me.
At Drappier, is wine a team sport or a family sport?
I would say that it’s a family sport, above all because the history that pervades the house was written by the family in the first place, and that continues to be the case. Transitions take place down through the generations, and today these work themselves out between brothers and sisters. It is truly the family that has written our story and ties of parentage and blood inevitably predominate. That remains a cornerstone of our story. The family is at the centre of our daily activity, in both professional and family spheres, and I hope that is the way things stay. Unfortunately this is becoming increasingly rare, but we are trying to maintain this vital family core.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
This is something that has evolved through the way that Champagne winemakers have always contrived to plant their terroir in accordance with their chosen combinations of plots, grape varieties, and wines. The interesting thing about this region is that the terroir is read, perhaps more than elsewhere, through the lens of the winemaker. Every winemaker has their own way of interpreting their terroir. There are many aspects to the concept of terroir: the geological and climatic sides, and a human meaning…In Champagne, human meaning is more significant, carries more weight, than in other regions. The winemaker has a more leading role.
To what do you owe your success?
It’s all down to the family. I haven’t succeeded yet and I don’t know if I will ever get there. Either way, any success is shared. I would say, above all, that we share a love for the art of wine. I am proud to have learnt and to have travelled, values that my father and grandfather passed on to me. In terms of my winemaking education, my grandfather has played a major role, while my father has had more of a hand in my love of research and innovation. In terms of my personal fulfilment, I see it as a success to have fallen in love with this profession, to see different things every day, and never to be satisfied with what we have done.
Who is your biggest supporter?
The emotional support of fellow winemakers with whom I have been able to talk things over. I have had a few setbacks and to be able to discuss things with my winemaker friends, from Champagne and elsewhere, to appreciate that I am not the only one to have experienced technical problems, and to be able to come up with solutions together, this is a big moral support in these testing times.
Your favourite colour?
It’s not so much a favourite colour as a colour that challenges me, especially in the world of Champagne, namely orange. That may not be terribly original, but I find it challenging.
Your favourite wine?
2018, because it strikes me as original and sums up very well what we are capable of and what we want to achieve in the years ahead.
Your favourite vintage?
2017 was really interesting, a real test. Also 2018 and 2022.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
Perhaps the renowned monk, St Bernard of Clairvaux, in terms of personality. I don’t believe that you can make wines that everyone likes. But they should be relatively straightforward, forthright, and offer something relatively unembellished, assured and slightly sharp.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
On a daily basis, with friends. And spontaneously.
Owner and winemaker of his family estate in Bandol: “I was regarded as the ‘son of’ for a very long time”.
The 22nd interview in Le Figaro Vin’s series finds us once more in Provence, at Château de Pibarnon, a southern jewel which has been raising the profile of the Bandol wine region for nearly half a century. We are here to meet Éric de Saint-Victor, #29, a second-generation owner who, after many years in the shadow of his parents, has firmly established his place at the zenith of the appellation.
With a mere three hectares acquired in 1977, in an appellation which formerly struggled to get on the map, Château de Pibarnon began life as a genuine gamble. “My parents purchased what was within their means,” acknowledges Éric de Saint-Victor. “My father saw that you could do something extraordinary in Bandol. They created everything from scratch.” With its two red wines, two rosés, and one white, the estate now ranks among the most sought-after in France and plays a major part in the growing reputation of the Bandol wine region on both national and international stages.
Le Figaro Vin: How does it feel to be crowned a winemaking champion?
Éric de Saint-Victor: It reminds me of something my father used to say when he heard himself described as the best: “I am one of the two best, but we don’t know who the other one is!” We should bear in mind that in the 1980s and 1990s there was a competitive atmosphere between the estates, who were in a race to get results and win attention. A great wine had to be powerful and intense. That was the norm, especially in Bandol. When it comes to me, I am really fortunate to have had the time to develop my expertise and to benefit from well-established vines, so today, above all, the challenge is with myself, in the pursuit of craftsmanship rather than competition. It makes me very happy to be regarded as a champion, but just like with sailing, you have to put your own boat in order before taking on others.
Have you been training for long?
At the outset I learnt alongside my parents. My father taught me about winemaking, my mother about the business side of things. The training never stops, and you are always taking risks.
Who is your mentor?
Alain Brumont (of Château Montus and Château Bouscassé in the Southwest, ed.) who visited the estate in 1989. He was the first winemaker of note to treat me as an equal. I was regarded as the “son of” for a very long time, whereas he spoke to me as one winemaker to another, which boosted my confidence. I think that more than having a mentor, what is really valuable is to analyse the pathways taken by winemakers whose wines you love and to see how these can be understood through their wines. In this respect tasting is key to analysis. I always say that Pibarnon’s first customer is me!
Is wine a team sport?
Of course. We have a talented team here and the working atmosphere is pivotal. I don’t want a team of pruning shears; I want human beings. Everyone brings something to the table, and I favour consensus and collective decision-making.
What is the key to making a good wine? The terroir or the winemaker?
We are merely part of the terroir, it is our job to give it meaning, to interpret it, whereas the substrate is immutable.
To what do you owe your success?
First and foremost to the terroir. Here in Bandol we have a unique geological layer, a Triassic limestone soil which is exceptional, enjoys excellent hydromorphology, and produces grapes with quite intense tannins.
Is your family proud of you?
I think so, even though I have been an “orphan” since the ages of 49 and 50.
Your favourite colour?
I like white, although it’s hard to choose. I roll with the seasons. My favourite style of wine is the one that takes me into its own world. I don’t look to be amazed, I go for depth and the experience of discovery.
Your favourite grape variety?
Mourvèdre, which has a fascinating, very romantic character. It’s a Don Quixote, untamed and freethinking. It’s a grape variety that requires freedom, it’s not a circus animal: you can’t put it in a box, you have to know how to guide it.
Your favourite wine?
Because of my genes it has to be Le Rouge du Château, which is Pibarnon’s standard bearer, combining all the attributes of the estate. In our southernmost environment we contrive to produce something fresh, which makes for an astonishing paradox on the palate. These are wines of light rather than wines of heat.
Your favourite vintage?
No vintage is exactly like another. I really liked 2019, for which we went out on a limb.
If your wine was a person, who would it be?
A character from fiction, but intellectually rich, a bit like Steve McQueen with a feline side. It’s a wine that sometimes shows its claws but has a smooth and solitary side.
What are the best circumstances in which to taste your wine?
When the wines are young, over a meal, when they have aged, in a more contemplative way, especially after 25 years of ageing. The latter are more meditative wines, producing more heightened states of intoxication, whereas the former make the conversation flow.
Who is your strongest competition?
Drought.
What is your greatest trophy?
My father won six gold medals at the Concours Général Agricole de Paris. He exuded a special charm and had built up some very strong relationships with sommeliers and winemakers. In 1993 I began to take over responsibility for winemaking, then, a few years after that, I entered a competition in England. I gave that a shot because in France I would have been afraid of only getting bronze! Neither Bandol wines nor Mourvèdre were specified on the entry form, so I competed in the “others” category and six weeks later I was awarded a prize. This story aside, the greatest trophy for me today is to share a tasting with a great sommelier and to see in his eyes a growing understanding which reveals a sense of experiencing something new.
Who would be your ideal successor on the podium?
Someone who could take my place while showing true independence through their own take on things. Someone who could build on their experience on the estate and find their own voice: they would be the ideal successor.